For those Catholics/Christians in Religion out there...

Harkoliar · 06-19-2002, 11:06 AM

this is a philosophy thing and pls, no flamming here and keep cool heads k? [img]smile.gif[/img] (btw, im also Roman Catholic and im not trying to change anything... just giving a different point of view) btw, for those people who have thier own beliefs in thier own religion, this is specifically in Chrisitianity, so im not saying anything about any others religion (so dont get mad [img]smile.gif[/img] )

i was talking to a friend about angels. we were in deep discussion about spirituality and different stuff. one discussion we had is about angels especially one of the greatest angels of god "Lucifer". as many of you Christians out there know that Lucifer was cast out of heaven to be ultimatly becoming "satan". many of you believe that it was because of the greatness of Lucifer that led him/her to become arrogant and challenged god for it was lucifer that was really the greatest of all angels.

now while that was i was raised to believe in it, my friend gave me a different point of view... as all of us well know that angels are basically good with no evil, how does one become so corrupt then when there was no evil before satan?? it MAY be that God willed to have evil but who was to carry out evil? Lucifer, being one of the greatest angels, offered himself (or was chosen by GOD) to be sacrificed and to be hated, cast down from heaven to be satan. why? maybe god needed the best to do the worst... maybe to let other people know good and evil.. dunno... maybe god has its own reasons about it... but this is another philosophy and im not saying that you guys start worshiping satan or anything but just want to let your guys know that is MAY be a possibility... in life...

just wanting to share this to all of ya [img]smile.gif[/img]

Arnabas · 06-19-2002, 11:14 AM

I am a non-Christian, personally, but this is a thought that I had at one point. I suggested this once before in another thread. Basically, I said that he was "the loyal opposition" and was simply serving a purpose. Well, I got blasted for it. Personally, I don't follow the bible (being pagan), but I have spent time studying religion both in school and on my own. I like to have religious/ philosophical debates, but there aren't many people who can debate the topic without resorting to insults and generally bad behaviour. Anyhow, I agree with your thoughts and hope that it can be discussed rationally. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-19-2002, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: Arnabas ]

Calaethis Dragonsbane · 06-19-2002, 11:15 AM

flamin? ppl should keep a cool head while debating. Oh and I should also point out that being RC(roman catholic) doesnt make you any less christian then others. PPL seem to distinguish by 'which branch' of faith you follow. To me that doesnt make sense. If you believe in Chirst, and follow His teachings, however they are interpreted, surely that makes you a christian.

Neb · 06-19-2002, 11:30 AM

An interesting thought, God creating the Ultimate Evil of the world..... A necessary thing, probably, for there can be no good without evil. Well, there can be, but we'd just never notice it.

Arnabas · 06-19-2002, 11:33 AM

Well, a continuation of that thought was that we needed evil to tempt us. By resisting temptation, we would become stronger. If we only have one choice (good) then being good really doesn't mean much. We are defined by the choices we make. If we have nothing to choose, how do we show that we're good?

Harkoliar · 06-19-2002, 11:34 AM

Quote:

flamin? ppl should keep a cool head while debating. Oh and I should also point out that being RC(roman catholic) doesnt make you any less christian then others. PPL seem to distinguish by 'which branch' of faith you follow. To me that doesnt make sense. If you believe in Chirst, and follow His teachings, however they are interpreted, surely that makes you a christian.

well, each has its own [img]smile.gif[/img] , that each has its own faith in religion. and i respect all those people who believe or not believe in thier own respective "beliefs". i was just pointing out in what i have learned being a roman catholic for the past 18 years of my life (NOT IN GENERAL MEANING TO ALL ROMAN CATHOLICS OUT THERE; that it applies to you all but ONLY to ME) for me personally, i have formed my own religion in my life.. but lets not go off-topic shall we [img]smile.gif[/img] ... im talking about angels not beliefs [img]smile.gif[/img]

Calaethis Dragonsbane · 06-19-2002, 11:36 AM

as you wish.... although what anyone could possibly say about angles is beyond me... I mean, how many ppl here in IW have had first hand experinces...?

Harkoliar · 06-19-2002, 11:45 AM

i honestly have not met an angel... but my friend who i had discussion with does meet her angel from time to time (her guardian angel)... and by her expression i could honestly say that she really meant what she has said and not making anything up. i keep an open mind about this things [img]smile.gif[/img] . i dont know if any in IW have angelic encounters in life... but i do not discount anything spiritual. i have also heard stories before from other people having angelic encounters... some may be true but some may let you becoming skeptical...

Calaethis Dragonsbane · 06-19-2002, 11:50 AM

I'm already skeptical; its a serious character flaw I have. I have a tendency to distrust anything 'paranormal' or 'spiritual experience'; purly becuase there are so many 'fake' ones out there. and 'so-called' miricles, like stautes weeping and buildings reflecting the image of some saint...well... I just dont accept that. If God wanted to 'make a miricle' surely He would do it for something good... eg, heal someone or something... or create a triple harvest in some drout-ed country. to me *that* would be a miricle, but thats besides the point.

Harkoliar · 06-19-2002, 12:05 PM

well, i cant fault you on that because it is natural for people to distrust things they have not seen (like ufo.. the other life.. blah blah) i, too, am distrustful about things like that for i wish to my eyes to see it to believe and i share your thoughts about those "fakes".

i will not "rightiously" say:
"those who believe in me, yet have not seen will have eternal life" said Jesus in the bible (forgot which verse)
"God has his own reasons for this and that..."

because it is just telling someone just believe it blindly and dont bother thinking about it, just do it... that is what i dont believe in religion... it something you just HAVE To believe in while accepting and understanding it.. whether or not it may or may not happened or its true or not.

but one thing i know of "if you truly believe on something with your heart and mind, then that belief for it may come true" maybe in a form of miracles.... [img]smile.gif[/img]

06-19-2002, 11:06 AM	#1
Harkoliar Jack Burton Join Date: March 21, 2001 Location: Philippines, but now Harbor City Sydney Age: 41 Posts: 5,556	this is a philosophy thing and pls, no flamming here and keep cool heads k? [img]smile.gif[/img] (btw, im also Roman Catholic and im not trying to change anything... just giving a different point of view) btw, for those people who have thier own beliefs in thier own religion, this is specifically in Chrisitianity, so im not saying anything about any others religion (so dont get mad [img]smile.gif[/img] ) i was talking to a friend about angels. we were in deep discussion about spirituality and different stuff. one discussion we had is about angels especially one of the greatest angels of god "Lucifer". as many of you Christians out there know that Lucifer was cast out of heaven to be ultimatly becoming "satan". many of you believe that it was because of the greatness of Lucifer that led him/her to become arrogant and challenged god for it was lucifer that was really the greatest of all angels. now while that was i was raised to believe in it, my friend gave me a different point of view... as all of us well know that angels are basically good with no evil, how does one become so corrupt then when there was no evil before satan?? it MAY be that God willed to have evil but who was to carry out evil? Lucifer, being one of the greatest angels, offered himself (or was chosen by GOD) to be sacrificed and to be hated, cast down from heaven to be satan. why? maybe god needed the best to do the worst... maybe to let other people know good and evil.. dunno... maybe god has its own reasons about it... but this is another philosophy and im not saying that you guys start worshiping satan or anything but just want to let your guys know that is MAY be a possibility... in life... just wanting to share this to all of ya [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Catch me if you can..

06-19-2002, 11:14 AM	#2
Arnabas Baaz Draconian Join Date: October 11, 2001 Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada Age: 53 Posts: 721	I am a non-Christian, personally, but this is a thought that I had at one point. I suggested this once before in another thread. Basically, I said that he was "the loyal opposition" and was simply serving a purpose. Well, I got blasted for it. Personally, I don't follow the bible (being pagan), but I have spent time studying religion both in school and on my own. I like to have religious/ philosophical debates, but there aren't many people who can debate the topic without resorting to insults and generally bad behaviour. Anyhow, I agree with your thoughts and hope that it can be discussed rationally. [img]smile.gif[/img] [ 06-19-2002, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: Arnabas ] __________________ Est Sularis oth Mithas

06-19-2002, 11:15 AM	#3
Calaethis Dragonsbane Legion Symbol Join Date: May 29, 2002 Location: Somewhere in between Age: 39 Posts: 7,029	flamin? ppl should keep a cool head while debating. Oh and I should also point out that being RC(roman catholic) doesnt make you any less christian then others. PPL seem to distinguish by 'which branch' of faith you follow. To me that doesnt make sense. If you believe in Chirst, and follow His teachings, however they are interpreted, surely that makes you a christian. __________________ Skydracgrrl: Cruelty, thy name is Cal! --- There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, none so deaf as those who refuse to hear, and none so smelly as those who refuse to bathe.

06-19-2002, 11:33 AM	#5
Arnabas Baaz Draconian Join Date: October 11, 2001 Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada Age: 53 Posts: 721	Well, a continuation of that thought was that we needed evil to tempt us. By resisting temptation, we would become stronger. If we only have one choice (good) then being good really doesn't mean much. We are defined by the choices we make. If we have nothing to choose, how do we show that we're good? __________________ Est Sularis oth Mithas

06-19-2002, 11:36 AM	#7
Calaethis Dragonsbane Legion Symbol Join Date: May 29, 2002 Location: Somewhere in between Age: 39 Posts: 7,029	as you wish.... although what anyone could possibly say about angles is beyond me... I mean, how many ppl here in IW have had first hand experinces...? __________________ Skydracgrrl: Cruelty, thy name is Cal! --- There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, none so deaf as those who refuse to hear, and none so smelly as those who refuse to bathe.

06-19-2002, 11:30 AM	#4
Neb Account deleted by Request Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: . Age: 38 Posts: 8,802	An interesting thought, God creating the Ultimate Evil of the world..... A necessary thing, probably, for there can be no good without evil. Well, there can be, but we'd just never notice it.

06-19-2002, 11:45 AM	#8
Harkoliar Jack Burton Join Date: March 21, 2001 Location: Philippines, but now Harbor City Sydney Age: 41 Posts: 5,556	i honestly have not met an angel... but my friend who i had discussion with does meet her angel from time to time (her guardian angel)... and by her expression i could honestly say that she really meant what she has said and not making anything up. i keep an open mind about this things [img]smile.gif[/img] . i dont know if any in IW have angelic encounters in life... but i do not discount anything spiritual. i have also heard stories before from other people having angelic encounters... some may be true but some may let you becoming skeptical... __________________ Catch me if you can..

06-19-2002, 11:50 AM	#9
Calaethis Dragonsbane Legion Symbol Join Date: May 29, 2002 Location: Somewhere in between Age: 39 Posts: 7,029	I'm already skeptical; its a serious character flaw I have. I have a tendency to distrust anything 'paranormal' or 'spiritual experience'; purly becuase there are so many 'fake' ones out there. and 'so-called' miricles, like stautes weeping and buildings reflecting the image of some saint...well... I just dont accept that. If God wanted to 'make a miricle' surely He would do it for something good... eg, heal someone or something... or create a triple harvest in some drout-ed country. to me that would be a miricle, but thats besides the point. __________________ Skydracgrrl: Cruelty, thy name is Cal! --- There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, none so deaf as those who refuse to hear, and none so smelly as those who refuse to bathe.

06-19-2002, 12:05 PM	#10
Harkoliar Jack Burton Join Date: March 21, 2001 Location: Philippines, but now Harbor City Sydney Age: 41 Posts: 5,556	well, i cant fault you on that because it is natural for people to distrust things they have not seen (like ufo.. the other life.. blah blah) i, too, am distrustful about things like that for i wish to my eyes to see it to believe and i share your thoughts about those "fakes". i will not "rightiously" say: "those who believe in me, yet have not seen will have eternal life" said Jesus in the bible (forgot which verse) "God has his own reasons for this and that..." because it is just telling someone just believe it blindly and dont bother thinking about it, just do it... that is what i dont believe in religion... it something you just HAVE To believe in while accepting and understanding it.. whether or not it may or may not happened or its true or not. but one thing i know of "if you truly believe on something with your heart and mind, then that belief for it may come true" maybe in a form of miracles.... [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Catch me if you can..

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