Jimmy Carter wins Nobel Peace Prize!

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by john: God bless Jimmy Carter.It just goes to show you that you can't be a good christian man and be a good politician.It's like mixing oil and water.And who could say Raegan was a great pres. god he slept through his last term and let the puppet masters run the country.

Jimmy Carter is a good man.

Ronald Reagan slept through his second term? I don't think so [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Yes, it's a shame the comment regarding President Bush was made. Carter had rights to the award on his own, and didn't need President Bush's help. You make it sound like it is Bush's fault Carter didn't get credit. How about placing the blame squarely where it belongs, on the people who made the statement. As for Carter's humanitarian efforts - quite good. You slam his foreign policy, but that was likely the one aspect of his Presidency that was undeniably on-track - and is, incidentally, a big reason he recieved the award. YOU apparently didn't have to be out with your neck on the line with HIM as the leader. He had without a doubt the worst foreign policy of any president in my life time. At least for people who had to risk their lives backing his moves/policy or lack there of. He will not be seen by history as the best President for at-home matters, and it has been said more than once that his foreign efforts too much overshadowed domestic efforts. But, as for the economy, I believe IIRC it was during his presidency that we were first dealing with stagflation - a new economic threat that defied both the Smith and Keynes economic models. I'll also defend some of his restrictions on the CIA - to a point. Though I think he was a bit *too* restrictive, I also think President Bush's recent campaign will show us the perils of not being at least *somewhat* restrictive. I think we will have to see just how History will reflect Bush' erfforts both in intelligence gathering and in how to deal with terrorist threats and Outlaw nations that refuse to conduct business in an ever more civilized manner. His Axis of Evil list is not something he or even this administration just made up. I think the French and the people of Bali have recently had a couple of little problems caused by the very people we are currently trying to do something about (no not the Iraqi thing). hamstrining your intelligence agencies over who they can and cannot talk to to get information in the "real world" is completely stupid...in my opinion.

I know I had decided not to respond to your posts from now on, but since I can only seem to get in here mondays and tuesdays...I figured what the heck.

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by khazadman: The sad thing is that Bush could turn every Mid-east dictatorship into a democracy and could end terrorism forever and these clowns in the nobel commitee would never recognize his accomplishments. And i don't care.

The Noble Peace prize is more directed at people that solve problems through mediation, not war.[/QUOTE]And what exactly did Jimmy Carter do to solve problems? The Egypt/Israel deal was mostly the doings of those two nations, all Carter did was supply them with a place to meet. I suppose he did manage to open up some few trade issues with China, but those didn't really kick into gear untill William Jefferson Clinton got into office. While we are at ti...HOW the heck did Arafat qualify?

[ 10-14-2002, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Yes, it's a shame the comment regarding President Bush was made. Carter had rights to the award on his own, and didn't need President Bush's help. You make it sound like it is Bush's fault Carter didn't get credit. How about placing the blame squarely where it belongs, on the people who made the statement. ******* I think we will have to see just how History will reflect Bush' erfforts both in intelligence gathering and in how to deal with terrorist threats and Outlaw nations that refuse to conduct business in an ever more civilized manner. hamstrining your intelligence agencies over who they can and cannot talk to to get information in the "real world" is completely stupid...in my opinion.

*******
I know I had decided not to respond to your posts from now on, but since I can only seem to get in here mondays and tuesdays...I figured what the heck.[/QUOTE]1. You are right that President Bush did not keep Carter from getting credit. President Bush shows no disrespect to past Presidents. I was, as you point out, commenting that the guy who made the comment (I forget his official name or title) put a shadow over the award and politicized something for his own political agenda - which was insulting to Carter and President Bush alike.

2. I can't comment on your assertions as to being "on the line" with Carter in office, but it's something to think on for sure.

3. Regarding the "hamstringing" of intelligence agencies - I do not wish that. I simply don't want civil rights (like privacy of citizens) trampled upon. I'll point out that non-citizens don't have the full protection of civil rights that citizens do, and that my statement is limited to Constitutional issues and the rights we citizens have vis-a-vis the government. As well, I think Congress's recent approval of placing the "use of force" decision squarely in the administration's hands has some Separation of Powers issues. I've not fully explored the text, so I won't go further than to say that I "suspect" a few issues might be there when I do read the full text.

4. I'm always happy to be your sounding board when you've got nothing better to do, Magick. Sorry you'd decided not to reply to my posts anymore - does that mean I won or something?

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: 4. I'm always happy to be your sounding board when you've got nothing better to do, Magick. Sorry you'd decided not to reply to my posts anymore - does that mean I won or something?

It can mean that if you wish it to. It isn't the reason I made my decision. I just realized that I was getting too agravated over your tactic of ignoring points made and facts presented and shifting toward attacking the writing style or form instead of the issue. It came home to me when I heard someone on the radio comment on the typical democrat (not that you are typical or a democrat) position of style over substance, form over function.

You were right about one thing, but I was unable to get into IW to post about it. I exagerated when I said Jefferson authored the Constitution, yes he did Author the Declaration of Independance (and a masterful work it was) . He did have a great influence on what did go into the Constitution and he did have input on the documents that set the foundation for the Constitution. If you or anyone is interested in his works here is a link. http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/mtjhtml/mtjser.html.

So anyway, enjoy your victory, such as it is. You and Dramnek are really two of a kind.

Just a clarification...the comment about you and dramnek being alike is not intended as an insult to you or him, just commentary that I have decided not to debate with people who seem to take your particular....I guess style is the best word, of debating.

[ 10-15-2002, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Charean]

Just remember, that besides Gerald Ford - Jimmy Carter was the only other president in our lifetime NOT to have had a scandal while in office.

Think about that.

Scary.

[Timber Loftis]

Not so, MagicK. I remember the post you got "fed up" with, and I remember my stance on it. Form over function was what I was trying to get you not to do on that particular post. On a forum like this, the "form" of argument is loose - and an unfair thing to attack. If I wanted "form over substance" discussions, I wouldn't take breaks from my legal work to make these posts.

So, I think you and I are at an en passe of "no, you did," "no, you did" regarding that post. Suffice to say I will not generally adopt a formative stance on *these* pages - I'll save that for judges and lawyers.

[ 10-15-2002, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

Originally posted by Charean: Just remember, that besides Gerald Ford - Jimmy Carter was the only other president in our lifetime NOT to have had a scandal while in office. Think about that. Scary.

Oh I know and have said so several times [img]smile.gif[/img] He is probalby the most "Honest" person to hold the office this century (well last century) but honesty doesnt make a good world leader. Jimmy has many fine qualities and what he has done to help people get into their own homes is great, for those things I respect him, as a leader I think he really sucked wind. Sad truth is, turning the other cheek often gets you killed in the real world, and for a national leader to adopt that moral code can get tens of thousands of people killed.

Sorry this is so late, but Once again Im locked out of IW (every wednesday thru friday like clockwork)

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Not so, MagicK. I remember the post you got "fed up" with, and I remember my stance on it. Form over function was what I was trying to get you not to do on that particular post. On a forum like this, the "form" of argument is loose - and an unfair thing to attack. If I wanted "form over substance" discussions, I wouldn't take breaks from my legal work to make these posts. So, I think you and I are at an en passe of "no, you did," "no, you did" regarding that post. Suffice to say I will not generally adopt a formative stance on *these* pages - I'll save that for judges and lawyers. Umm didn't you say you were a lawyer?

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: On a forum like this, the "form" of argument is loose - and an unfair thing to attack. If I wanted "form over substance" discussions, I wouldn't take breaks from my legal work to make these posts. Suffice to say I will not generally adopt a formative stance on *these* pages - I'll save that for judges and lawyers. Umm didn't you say you were a lawyer?

[/QUOTE]Right. Like I said, if I wanted those form-based arguments, I wouldn't come here to "escape" my 9 to 5 (well, actually 8 to 7, but who's counting).