New mage, Mage/Thief question

[Calagari]

I have just started playing IWD and am in the Kuldahar Pass area of the game. I have 2 characters in my party which are having trouble staying alive. They only have 5 to 6 hp. One is a pure mage and the other a Thief/Mage. I have given the Thief/Mage what armor they can wear. But the pure mage is armorless due to his profession.
I ask for some tips on how to keep these guys alive. I think 5 and 6 is just too low and may have to be replaced. Or is this normal for this game?

[T-D-C]

Level 1 mages are always going to have low hit points. To keep them alive try the following.

1) Buff them with any spells
2) keep them at the back of any fights. They should never get into melee.

EDIT: How rude of me I didn't welcome you

[img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]
WELCOME TO IRONWORKS
[img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

[ 10-06-2004, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: T-D-C ]

[Aerich]

Welcome, Calagari [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]

As T-D-C said, keep those weaklings at the back, if you can. They start out with low HP and will always have lower HP than a comparable level fighter.

Other tips? When creating a non-warrior character (Paladin, Ranger, Fighter), try to give him/her a Constitution score of 16 - that means you will get the maximum non-warrior HP bonus of +2/level. An 18 Dexterity (or as close as you can get) also provides a -4 bonus to Armor Class. Dexterity is just as important to mages as Intelligence.

Also look into getting the Armor spell. It lasts for a decent length of time, and should be cast right after resting. With 18 Dex and the Armor spell (which you can pick at the start, buy in Kuldahar, or find a scroll of in the Vale of Shadows), you can get down to an AC of 2; that should be sufficient to keep you alive if you keep your mage(s) out of trouble at the back.

[Calagari]

I had placed the mage at the back of the pack. At times he seems to want to wander to the front where he gets himself into trouble. Either it is the scripting or my lack of game play knowledge that allows this. I had not tried the spell usage though. In the pass area you just can't seem to rest. Those pesky goblins are all over the place like scrambled eggs.
Thanks for the welcome

Originally posted by T-D-C: Level 1 mages are always going to have low hit points. To keep them alive try the following. 1) Buff them with any spells 2) keep them at the back of any fights. They should never get into melee. EDIT: How rude of me I didn't welcome you [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] WELCOME TO IRONWORKS [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

[Calagari]

I think at your advice I will recreate these 2 characters and try to give them those stats. I think I just got overwhelmed in the creation part about the 4th time around. I wish there had been a save ability at that point. Thinking about it I guess there was but I didn't use it. Noobs what can I say? We are all alike. I could have just kept the npcs I did create and return later to add more to the list. It is never too late to do this I guess.
Thanks for the welcome and the help. *Cal rushes back to the drawing board.*

Originally posted by Aerich: Welcome, Calagari [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] As T-D-C said, keep those weaklings at the back, if you can. They start out with low HP and will always have lower HP than a comparable level fighter. Other tips? When creating a non-warrior character (Paladin, Ranger, Fighter), try to give him/her a Constitution score of 16 - that means you will get the maximum non-warrior HP bonus of +2/level. An 18 Dexterity (or as close as you can get) also provides a -4 bonus to Armor Class. Dexterity is just as important to mages as Intelligence. Also look into getting the Armor spell. It lasts for a decent length of time, and should be cast right after resting. With 18 Dex and the Armor spell (which you can pick at the start, buy in Kuldahar, or find a scroll of in the Vale of Shadows), you can get down to an AC of 2; that should be sufficient to keep you alive if you keep your mage(s) out of trouble at the back.

[Charles the Paladin]

Welcome (again) Calagari. Good to see someone from your great state on the board! You got some great replies. One thing you mentioned was your mage wandering to the front and getting pummeled. Turning the Artifical Intelligence off will stop this (button on bottom right of screen). While micromanaging every move your characters make will be a little cumbersome at first, you will greatly love the control you have, and it'll be second nature before you know it. By the way, I had great success with my mage/thief as long as I did exactly what our fellow adventurers suggested. Use your armor spells! I believe there may have been a wand or something along the way that gave me armor as well- try and look it up on the website item lists. Keep saving every chance you get and you'll go far!

[NobleNick]

Originally posted by Aerich: Other tips? When creating a non-warrior character (Paladin, Ranger, Fighter), try to give him/her a Constitution score of 16 - that means you will get the maximum non-warrior HP bonus of +2/level. An 18 Dexterity (or as close as you can get) also provides a -4 bonus to Armor Class. Dexterity is just as important to mages as Intelligence.

Excellent, advice. [To clarify, I think you meant to say "non-warrior character (e.g., something other than a Paladin, Ranger, Fighter).]" I didn't realize that CON = 16 gave you max benefit for non-warrior. And, DUH! Of course DEX helps one avoid hits; so why did I never make the connection that DEX was important for Mages? Ah! Because I DC all my Mages with Fighter or (once) MC them with Thief; and I always max DEX on Thieves and Fighters, so the question never came up.

Calagari, Please also accept my welcome to the IWD forum.

Hey! What level is your Mage? Seems like he should be at least clvl 2 and have more HP than that. Do you have "max hit points per level" option checked in your game options screen?

If you are going to re-roll, here are some more tricks to pump up your Mage:

1.) First off, go to you options screen and make sure you've checked "max HP/level," as I described above (unless your roleplaying considerations won't allow it.)

2.) Make your Mage as a Dual Class (DC) Fighter/Mage. This means you must must roll him/her as a HUMAN Fighter. Make sure your Fighter has at least these stats:

HUMAN
STR = 15 (so you can DC out of Fighter)
DEX = 18 (To get the max AC bonus, per Aerich's suggestion)
CON = 18 (To get the max HP bonuses)
INT = 18 (Need at least 17 to DC to Mage
. . . . . . . but make it 18 to memorize max spells..)
WIS = 3
CHA = 3

This is a total roll of 75, which should be very easy to get. If you roll more (and I suggest you roll til you do: An 85 is certainly obtainable within 5 minutes of rolling), use the extra points to max out STR, and then make WIS and CHA more reasonable.

3.) When the Fighter's weapon skill/ability screen comes up, stack 2 Proficiency Points (PP) in bow, and stack the rest (I think you will have 2 more PP left) in ONE other weapon you would like to use. (I suggest long sword, axe, hammer, or some other "Fighter-like" weapon that your other warriors are not specializing in.)

4.) Adventure until you Fighter reaches clvl 3. At this time you will have earned another PP. Stack it in bow.

5.) After you have completed the upgrade to Fighter[3], remove your armor and weapons (you can still carry them) and go through the DC to Mage, which is accessed from your Fighter's character information screen. When your Mage weapon skill/ability screen comes up, place your PP in a weapon other than what your fighter had, or else you will lose it shortly.

If you followed directions, you will now have a Mage[1] with forty-two (42) Hit Points! Actually you have something MUCH better: A DC Fighter[3]/Mage[X]. The Fighter skills are inaccessable for a while (but you get to use the HP!). When your Mage levels to Mage[4], your Fighter skills are regained. Yes, that means that your Mage can then wield any bow a Fighter can, and with all the skill of your *BEST* Fighter! (The 2 PP you stacked in the other Fighter weapon is also available; but hopefully your Mage won't be in melee often.)

Armor restrictions still apply: Your Fighter/Mage can wear ANY Fighter armor; but can only cast spells while wearing Mage-compatible armor.

Your Mage will continue to build HP at a Mage's rate, with the +2HP/level bonus for non-warriors with high CON. (I think ALL characters who qualify for a bonus only get the bonus until CLVL 10.)

Do you have HoW and TotLM installed?

For your MC Mage/Thief: The "max HP per level" seemed to have no effect for my MC Gnome Thief/Illusionist. I have no other advice to give, beyond Aerich's advice about high CON; and I don't even know if this will positively affect an MC character. Sorry. I use MC VERY selectively, because it has too many "features" that stink.

Hope this helps.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!


[ 10-07-2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[Calagari]

Please bear with me here I bought the ultimate IWD collection. The manual mainly addresses IWD 2 so I barely read it. I checked the options page and found the line for max hp a button surrounded by a red border. I hope that means I would be getting the max hp but I am not sure.
My mage did just level up to level 2 after completing the Kuldahar pass section.
I have been reading the various posts when I get time and saw something I should have done. That was save to be able to replay until I got the wand. Ooops

I won't try to address everything in your post as I need time to digest it all. This board has some very experienced players. One couldn't ask for better support than what is found here.

One thing I did do was give max dex and con to whomever I thought needed it mainly thief, fighters and pally. I think I gave max con to the mage along with Int for the spells.

My fighter, Ranger, 2nd fighter, Mage and Thief have all gained a level. The fighters are now in the mid 20's or high 20's for hp. The mage only rose to 8 now. That was a 2 point gain from last level.

Yes I have all the IWD collection installed.
Let me keep reading your post for the other info you have generously provided.

[ 10-07-2004, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Calagari ]

[NobleNick]

Calagari,

Yes, it is a lot to digest. Have fun, make mistakes, and don't be afraid to start over after you've learned a bit. The game will allow virtually any party to succeed; but some party mixes are easier or more fun. I see you are missing a Cleric, which could cause you some problems in the later game; and will definitely cause you problems if you intend to take this party into HoW or TotLM areas.

Do you have Trials of the Luremaster (TotLM) installed? It is a free download from Bioware, available only to those who have HoW. It provides more adventuring area and is the final and complete patch to IWD/HoW.

It appears you have the right button ("max HP") selected to the right position.

Your Fighter at Character Level 2 (also known as "level 2," "clvl 2," or "Fighter[2]") with CON = 18 should be at 28 HP. That is because warriors get 10 HP per clvl + 4 HP/clvl bonus --> 14 x 2 = 28. At the next level your warriors will be clvl3 and the ones with CON = 18 get another 14 HP, and therefore have the 42 HP I talked about in my previous post.

Hope this helps.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!


[ 10-07-2004, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[Dancing Virginia]

Hi Calagari!

I'm from Virginia, too. (Hence the screenname!) Originally from Williamsburg, now in Arlington.

I just started IWD as well. NobleNick and Aerich's advice has been invaluable to me. Check out my previous posts on "Newbie Questions," "Rolling Characters", and "My Party - FINALLY." Great stuff and ultimately helpful to you, I hope.

I am what NobleNick calls a "power gamer" and I'm really excited to work my way through the game with my awesome party. I played through to the beginning of Dragon's Eye before starting over again with my new party so you are in good company. I know that in the long run, my do-over will be well worth while.

I highly encourage you to take advantage of this board as everyone is very kind and eager to share knowledge. I probably won't be able to help you too much right now, but at least we can compare notes as we work through thing simultaneously. I found IWD overwhelming at first, too, but hang in there...it gets better.

Oh yeah...install Heart of Winter and Trials of the Luremaster if you haven't done so already. Enhances graphics, items, and game play. Very cool.

Cary