A victory for human rights.

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: I was really surprised at the extent of things Sir Taliesin mentioned going on in his own unit during Desert Storm. I don't know that sports quite fits that same set of criteria. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I was too. I thought people would be more professional than that. However I didn't tell this to bash women or as a reason to keep them out of the military, rather as an analogy as to what happens when the ole hormones start acting up and what it does to cohesion in the unit. I can only imagine that it is the same for gays that are in the military. It wasn't a good situation.

As for sports... I don't know. I have a couple gay friends and I used to workout with one and of course we were in the locker room together but it never bothered me. But I could see how others could be bothered by it.

BTW, I in regards to Majik's statement about Women in combat. I wouldn't have a problem with a all female combat unit. They'd be the nastiest fighting unit in the world! I sure wouldn't want to fight them. I've always said that females were the more vicious of the species!!!

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: BTW, I in regards to Majik's statement about Women in combat. I wouldn't have a problem with a all female combat unit. They'd be the nastiest fighting unit in the world! I sure wouldn't want to fight them. I've always said that females were the more vicious of the species!!!

I agree with ya there Sir T [img]smile.gif[/img] Oh and its a G not a J My comments were about mixed men and women fighting forces.

[ 07-01-2003, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Night Stalker]

It's any tension that can destroy unit cohesion. Two troops fighting over the same lover, a troop's personal hygene habits, ethnic background (this is much improving thankfully), social status .... whatever. When the seeds of discord are planted - a unit is destroyed, metaphorically and often phycially on the battlefield. Some group divisions are natural and benign, others tear a unit apart. Until over all society changes though things will not change in the service.

Just a note, sexual tensions (homo, hetero) are the most destructive.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Masklinn: Ok, so if I follow you there, you wouldn't allow gay people in men sport teams too eh ? Because they also take showers together you know. Where else would you not allow gay people ? What about swimming pools ? Public beaches ? Do you really think because they are gay they can't behave normally in a shower ? Do you really think they're all sex freaks ?

Masklinn - I disagree with Timber about the validity of comparing a sports team to a military unit.

The most significant difference (obviously) is that discord among members of a sports team is NOT going jeapordize the lives of the other members in the heat of a game. Teammates may not get along all the time...and some may even downright hate one of their teammates, but that still isn't going to pose a life-threatening risk to either one during their games.

Secondly, members of a sports team do not live together 24/7. If there is a fight or an argument in the locker room (before or after a game), the two can get in their cars and go their separate ways. In the military, the two still have to share the same barracks, so the tension never has a chance to dissipate.

As for your question about whether straight people really believe all gays are "sex freaks", Timber answered that very well. I know from experience that most gays are not "sex freaks" any more than most hetero's aren't. I also know that some are "flaming gays" (as Timber mentioned and I have the same disrespect for them that I do for the guy making lewd cat-calls at every woman he sees. In other words, I don't expect gay people to be any more (or less) of a "sex freak" than anybody else...but as our esteemed lawyer pointed out, I think it would be reasonable to assume that any woman other than my wife would feel "uncomfortable" sharing a shower with me, even if neither of us felt any type of attraction for the other.

{And I would feel extremely uncomfortable in that same situation. In addition to the normal embarassment of the situation, I'm afraid the lady would face a significant risk of drowning from laughing so hard. }

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: {And I would feel extremely uncomfortable in that same situation. In addition to the normal embarassment of the situation, I'm afraid the lady would face a significant risk of drowning from laughing so hard. }

In my case, that assuming she actually got to the shower and didn't pass out before hand, from laughing so hard!!! This has turned out to be quite a good thread!