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Old 11-24-2004, 01:31 AM   #1
Lucern
Quintesson
 

Join Date: August 28, 2004
Location: the middle of Michigan
Age: 42
Posts: 1,011
Greetings IWD'ers,

I'm familiar with the engine, the system, I've played about 25 D&D games, but by some fluke in personal funds I never tried any of the IWD products - even though they were hailed as great strategy games, which is my other favorite genre. I was waiting to see if they would be released together, but I cracked after I saw the first of the series at Half Priced books for $5. So I now own it, but I wonder if I should wait to play it until I have its expansion. Any thoughts about this?

I can wait, as I'm struggling through a few other games anyway.

Also - I see lots of people use vastly multiclass parties in some other threads, but I almost NEVER make them when I'm given 6 players. I usually go with 2 fighters, a thief, a druid or cleric, a wizard, and whatever catches my fancy - a bard, a paladin, whatever. One of my fears in 2nd edition are the level limits imposed on some races being some classes, so I usually go with mostly humans, who have no limits but can't multiclass. I want IW2 as well, so these limits will matter if I get it, and if they are actually implemented.
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Old 11-24-2004, 03:07 AM   #2
Aerich
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Join Date: May 27, 2004
Location: Canada
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Posts: 2,061
Hiya, Lucern! Welcome to the playzone.

You could play it as is, but the expansion Heart of Winter adds a whole whack of new spells and improvements besides the extra area. I played it without the expansion for a while (3 times through the game), and it is enjoyable, but HoW is MUCH better, especially for priests and bards. Additionally, there is a free downloadable expansion to the expansion called Trials of the Luremaster (TotL) that is only compatible with HoW; there's a recent thread on ToTL and where to get it.

There are no level limits for demihumans in either IWD 1 or 2.

Your standard, non-multiclass party will do fine, with a couple of tweaks. I would recommend multiclassing the thief with a fighter, as this is a VERY fighting-intensive game. Multiclassing with fighter will still allow you to do all the thief things with no problem, but add to your thief's usefulness as an archer and in general melee. In addition, it would allow you to have exceptional Str (18/**), which helps a lot with backstabs or sneak attack. You will also have more HP, which is good if you want your thief to get anywhere near the front lines.

I might also recommend switching out one fighter for a paladin, but it's not necessary if you don't mind foregoing the usual evil-killing paladin-specific weapon. Definitely try taking a bard for your sixth character; Their songs and their all-round ability to take pressure off other members of the group is a nice thing (e.g. they can cover all the pickpocketing, and are decent spellcasters). It still leaves you a little low on clerical/druidic power, but you can't have everything; without multiclassing, that is.

Cheers.
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:54 AM   #3
Lucern
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Thanks Aerich! So THIS is your other lair.

I may not be able to resist dabbling in the game but I'll try to acquire HoW by my usual means. I don't suppose it'll still be for sale at stores like Best Buy now, but you never know. Maybe it'll be at that Half Priced Books again - if someone was foolish enough to part with this game, perhaps someone will be foolish enough to part with its expansion.

Good points about the fighter/thief combination, though I always liked the cleric/thief combination too. For some reason I had not considered the strength effect on backstabs, which is probably because through most games I just create an old pen-and-paper party. There was a half-elven fighter/thief, but her strength was dead average. The halfling thief's strength is 6 hehe. There was also no wizard, so you can imagine I make hard games even harder lol. A very intelligent bard made up for that though. They got through Pool of Radience (the first one), Curse of the Azure Bonds, and BG 1 and 2, but I think I'll bench them for this one since it sounds even harder. In any case, it's great to know that all races/classes are created equal as far as level limits go!

Clerics are actually my favorite class to play. I love those divine-magic wielding, undead-turning, full-plate wearing folks who hit with that flail or Mace of Disruption 'just' often enough. My favorite 3rd edition build for them makes a mockery of their traditional combat limitations - picture a greatsword wielding fellow who stands at the front line with the fighters and usually stays there.
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Old 11-24-2004, 07:10 AM   #4
Calagari
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Join Date: October 5, 2004
Location: God's Country Va.
Posts: 198
You must be lucky enough to have one of these stores in your neighborhood. Online they don't offer any games. Virginia doesn't have one of these stores yet and if we do get one it will probably be around Northern Va.


Quote:
Originally posted by Lucern:
Greetings IWD'ers,

I'm familiar with the engine, the system, I've played about 25 D&D games, but by some fluke in personal funds I never tried any of the IWD products - even though they were hailed as great strategy games, which is my other favorite genre. I was waiting to see if they would be released together, but I cracked after I saw the first of the series at Half Priced books for $5. So I now own it, but I wonder if I should wait to play it until I have its expansion. Any thoughts about this?

I can wait, as I'm struggling through a few other games anyway.

Also - I see lots of people use vastly multiclass parties in some other threads, but I almost NEVER make them when I'm given 6 players. I usually go with 2 fighters, a thief, a druid or cleric, a wizard, and whatever catches my fancy - a bard, a paladin, whatever. One of my fears in 2nd edition are the level limits imposed on some races being some classes, so I usually go with mostly humans, who have no limits but can't multiclass. I want IW2 as well, so these limits will matter if I get it, and if they are actually implemented.
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Old 11-24-2004, 04:29 PM   #5
Lucern
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Join Date: August 28, 2004
Location: the middle of Michigan
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Definately Calagari. I've gotten a few good games there, though sometimes it bites me in the butt. It's cheap though, so its worth the risk. The reason they don't offer games online is because they don't catalog their inventory. I asked if they had a particular book and they just said "Well I can't check. You'll have to look for it." Not taking inventory is an interesting strategy, but they usually have new stuff every week.

I got Aquanox 2 there, because it looked cool. It wasn't lol.

But I also got Arcanum, IL2 Sturmovik, and Pool of Radience there...and I had a chance to get Knights of the Old Republic but I didn't know enough about it to risk it.
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Old 11-24-2004, 07:01 PM   #6
NobleNick
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Join Date: February 5, 2002
Location: Huntsville, AL, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 1,045
Lucern,

Another extremely experienced "newbie" hits the IWD boards. Welcome!

Aerich's got it right: Definitely wait for HoW (and download the free Trials of the LureMaster while you wait). Installing IWD, then HoW, then TotLM will fully transform and COMPLETELY patch your game. The expansion removes level limits, for all practical puposes in a Normal game. And I also agree that you should MC or DC the Thief with SOMETHING. MC Fighter/Thief is certainly an excellent choice. DC Fighter/Thief, MC Cleric/Thief or MC Mage/Thief are other very respectable choices. Otherwise your Thief will get so much experience in the expansions that his higher levels add nothing to his capabilities that affect gameplay.

IWD **IS** very linear and very combat intensive. (Any more combat and any less story and people might start calling it a squad tactics game with RPG flavor! lol!) So, since you already lean towards Humans, you might want to Dual Class (DC) your Cleric and (especially) your Mage with a Fighter. This is especially if you intend to take the party into HoW and beyond. A Fighter[9]/Cleric can achieve 5 PP in Mace (or other Cleric weapon), giving him 3 ApR (instead of 1) plus big THAC0 bonuses over a SC Cleric. The same type of thing helps your Mage. A Fighter[9]/Mage can have (for CON=18) 126 HP at level 9, versus 54 for a Mage. If that is too much bother, you can make a F[6]/M or even F[3]/M and still get lots of benefit. The extra HP and THAC0, and ability to use LongBow make a difference.

Since you share my appreciation of Clerics, you could also DC one of your Fighters with Cleric (so that instead of a 2 F and a C, you had a F and two F/C; or a F and, say, a F[9]/C and {C[12]/F or C[12]/R} ). Extra Cleric power comes in very handy in HoW and TotLM.

A good use for that one lonely Fighter you have left would be a DC Fighter[X]/Druid, where X is 9 to 13 inclusive.

If you DC a lot of your characters with Fighters, or take only an MC Mage, then a Bard would be an excellent addition to your party. (Bards ROCK in warrior heavy parties, with HoW installed.) Otherwise, (and especially if you only have one Cleric) a Paladin might be a better choice (specialize in LongSword).

There are portions of IWD/HoW/TotLM that demand a physical party; so don't scrimp on muscle. That is why you will see a lot of MC and DC going on: people trying to fit lots of muscle, magic, ministry and music into the party. That said, a pure Straight Class party can do O.K.; and some find the extra challenge refreshing. (It's just not my cup of tea.)

Have fun.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!


[ 11-24-2004, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]
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Old 11-24-2004, 09:53 PM   #7
Lucern
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Join Date: August 28, 2004
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Quote:
(NobleNick) Since you share my appreciation of Clerics, you could also DC one of your Fighters with Cleric (so that instead of a 2 F and a C, you had a F and two F/C; or a F and, say, a F[9]/C and {C[12]/F or C[12]/R} ). Extra Cleric power comes in very handy in HoW and TotLM.
Thanks NobleNick.

I notice that the staight class fighter remains in the equation. I'm definately considering some Dual Class characters and maybe a multiclass more than I would in another game. Just looking at the inside flap of the game box gives me the idea that it's a good idea to have self sufficient thieves and wizards. Each character is outnumbered like 8 to one, and the thief is by himself lol. That's probably not going to happen though. I hope. lol.

Now to hunt down HoW!
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Old 11-24-2004, 10:57 PM   #8
Aerich
Lord Ao
 

Join Date: May 27, 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 2,061
One thing you might consider doing is to buy the IWD Ultimate Collection. It has IWD, HoW, and IWD 2 in it. Yes, you've already bought the basic game, but HoW on its own is quite difficult to find. I had the basic game too, then bought the UC because I couldn't find HoW anywhere else (granted, in only about a week of searching). The UC is pretty cheap, I got mine for about $30 (including S&H) off of Ebay.

And your thief CAN get outnumbered 8-1 if he gets separated or detected while scouting.
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