Kidman is Smokin'

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Let me be clear. Mr. My Way or the Highway. Nanny police. Fascist.

C'mon Timber, would it be in any way possible for you to disagree with Yorick without calling him a fascist?
I'm sure I'll just be told it's just a cultural difference* but apart from it being a possible cultural difference, it's simply against the TOS. [img]smile.gif[/img]

* I cannot but say that in that case, I'm glad my culture doesn't think it OK to compare all and sundry to Nazis without regard for the people who lived under that regime

On topic, I think Nicole Kidman can do whatever she wants as long as it's legal (and as long as she keeps up being cool ). Yes, it's possible kids admire stars, but I doubt it would lead to them taking up smoking, come on people! Peer pressure makes kids smoke, not the fact that some movie star does. And if there was a possibility some kid did imitate his or her idol in a bad habit, it would be up to the parents to make sure the child has sound enough morals not to do it.
As a 10-12 year old I literally IDOLISED Kurt Cobain and Axl Rose, yet it never even occurred to me to start taking heroine, blow my brains out or beat people up.

Oh and another thing - it strikes me how some people get so worked up about the supposed morals of Hollywood stars it's a small wonder they even still watch movies at all!
Personally, all I know about filmstars is what I see of them in the movies, and since they are acting a part in those, that's almost nothing at all! I suggest you stop reading gossip magazines, websites and papers if you don't want to hear about filmstars' bad behaviour.

[ 05-23-2003, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

[Timber Loftis]

Melusine, good point on Axl and Kurt -- very true. But, is it true for every kid? Some kids idolize to the point of pantomime.

As for the "fascist" statement, it applies only on the smoking issue, and not broadly to the bard. However, on that issue, if you go read again the HUGE threads on the "Smoking Ban," the esteemed bard is simply not willing to compromise, no matter the offers or beggings I undertake. At all. Whatsoever. I cannot abide that. Therefore I stand by my "fascist" statement, and the other portions of the sentence, even if it is against TOS, to whatever detriment Choc may throw my way.

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Yorick: It has ever been thus. With power comes responsibility. She has influence over young women that want to be like her. When she smokes in public, she's not just affecting her life, but countless others. Is she prepared to make that choice? She knows the deal. It's not like she was handed fame and admiration without her asking for it. When you accept fame as an entertainer, you also accept a restriction in civil liberties. There are simply things you can no longer do. Parts of you become public property. If she was really bothered by that reality she could quit and find another career, otherwise she can cop the criticisms on the chin. She's a big girl, an Aussie to boot so I'm sure she can handle the flak.

I could not disagree more. It may well be that kids are going do what there idols do, but untill their 18, its the parents responsibility to teach their children what is right and wrong. Granted, this may mean only teaching the consiquences of actions, but it in no way is the resposibilty of an artist, or actor, or musician. That is a copout to the fullist extent. It actually is part of the problem with kids these days. Parents let the T.V. babysit the kids, then get upset when their kids act like whats on T.V. If your kids start acting in a way that you dont like, take the influance away, period. To blaim the T.V. (or whos on T.V.) is like blaiming the gun for the killing. Just rediculous!!!

[Melusine]

I'm sorry you feel that way. Regardless of how you feel on the smoking thing, your conviction is as strong as Yorick's, so why feel the need to attach such a horrible word to him? Argue the point, not the person. There's no need to insult someone even if you disagree with him very strongly. But if you cannot be swayed, alright. Just wanted to let you know I disagree.

On the other issue, oh certainly there must be children whose idolisation goes so far as to make them imitate their heroes in every way. But again, I think that in those cases, a good upbringing can limit the damage. I might have taken up smoking weed because my idols did (God knows it's easy to obtain where I am ) but I think to some extent I didn't because I was brought up knowing I didn't need stuff like that to feel good about myself or feel happier or whatever.

[Vaskez]

*throws in another voice which will no doubt be lost in the barrage of more intelligent and louder voices*

Personally I think it's the kids' responsibility not to smoke, it's not celebrities' responsibility to limit their actions such that they are not allowed to act like any other normal person. (Maybe unfortunately ) I don't have much sympathy for people who give in to peer pressure. And as has been said peer pressure is the main cause of kids starting to smoke. As a kid I received MANY pressures to act one way or another. Some kids nagged me all day on a Geography field trip to take drugs and took the piss when I said "no" but I never felt like giving in because I knew that no matter what they said THEY were the losers. I didn't want to be popular with them! I also have no sympathy for people who idolise other people so much that they have to copy their habits etc. Humans are not God to be idolised.

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: Dont people have something better to talk about?

The media? Are you kidding? There are several thousands of daily newspapers and magazines as well as web-pages to fill up wtih crap like this! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Cloudbringer]

Timber, namecalling is not only against the ToS, it's not necessary and takes away from your otherwise well-thought out and well-worded replies.

Please avoid it in the future and if you and Yorick have differences that cause you to feel the need to toss derrogatory names his way, perhaps a discussion in pm would help you to both better understand each other or at least tolerate one another's views when posted? [img]smile.gif[/img]


To the topic: Sorry Lil and Mel, but I do know a couple teens who started smoking as pre-teens because their favorite movie stars smoked. They thought that if the stars did it, it MUST be cool. [img]tongue.gif[/img] One told me that he saw his idol looking suave and getting the 'chicks' on the big screen so he figured it would make him suave and appealing .....at ll years old! Needless to say, his parents squashed it in the early stages (hard to miss smoke on your 11 yr old's clothing and breath!) but still, it DID influence these kids. Maybe two isn't a big enough sampling to say it impacts larger numbers, but at least in these two cases, that's the reason the kids gave for starting smoking, not that their friends did or anything.

[ 05-23-2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

Originally posted by Melusine: Oh and another thing - it strikes me how some people get so worked up about the supposed morals of Hollywood stars it's a small wonder they even still watch movies at all! Personally, all I know about filmstars is what I see of them in the movies, and since they are acting a part in those, that's almost nothing at all! I suggest you stop reading gossip magazines, websites and papers if you don't want to hear about filmstars' bad behaviour.

Hey Mel, just thought I'd chimein...I don't pay extrordinary attention to the "Stars" and their home lives, however when one does something particularly outrageous (in my view) I do avoid their products...for example, I won't go see anything with George Clooney in it. If I were a country music fan I'd probably quit listening to the Dixie Chicks.

You don't always have to read tabloids to get the "Stars" shoving their opinions in your face..the Mainstream Media help them do it all the time.

Edit: I think Lord K is correct in this matter...untill the kid is either emancipated or reaches 18, it is up to the parents to control both their children and what they view on tv and at the theatre.

[ 05-23-2003, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[pritchke]

Originally posted by MagiK: Hey Mel, just thought I'd chimein...I don't pay extrordinary attention to the "Stars" and their home lives, however when one does something particularly outrageous (in my view) I do avoid their products...for example, I won't go see anything with George Clooney in it. If I were a country music fan I'd probably quit listening to the Dixie Chicks. You don't always have to read tabloids to get the "Stars" shoving their opinions in your face..the Mainstream Media help them do it all the time. Edit: I think Lord K is correct in this matter...untill the kid is either emancipated or reaches 18, it is up to the parents to control both their children and what they view on tv and at the theatre.

The Dixie Chicks rock, they stood by their beliefs and principals, and didn't give in to peer pressure. Because of them I have a reason to love Texas.

Never did like Clooney.

While I do agree that it is up to the parents to control both their children and what they view on TV and at the theatre it is very difficult to do with all the crap that comes on these days including commercials. The beer commercials seem to be directed at teens.

[ 05-23-2003, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[robertthebard]

Looks like this could get long...Before I start, I'd like to say that there are several good points on this thread, but...
The bottom line is this: Was it Dennis Rodman who said "I don't want to be a role model for your children."? Which begs a question, Why do people in the entertainment biz get into the biz in the first place? I can answer that in one word...MONEY. Does any one here think that Ted Nugent really cares what people think about him? No, he doesn't. He's got more money than I could spend, and he lives his life the way he wants to. Just like the rest of us would, in his position. I don't have the celebrity that he does, but I am not unknown locally, but that doesn't affect the way I live, much. It isn't the responsibility of a celebrity to raise my children, that is my job. I don't know how well I do, but I do it. I teach her the difference between right and wrong, and hope that it sticks. What else can I do? I posted once on this, and I stand by what I said then, I should tell my 12 year old that it is better to run around in public nude, than to smoke??? I don't think so. As a smoker, I see a lot worse things that I could teach my children, even though I pray soundly that neither of them picks up the habit. [img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img] Anyway, I think that no matter how famous you get, you should be able to live your life the way you choose, just be prepared to be flamed, bashed or otherwise drawn out into the public eye, because there are some people out there with nothing better to do than drag your name through the mud because you have something that they can never have. Thank you.