I need a little objective advice please.

[Azred]

I am definitely in the camp of those who agree that you should put your son's welfare first--and that includes emotional welfare. Starting a fight with your ex over child support is a battle you will not win, because even if you "win" in a court you would lose him (or at least a part of him).
Right now you are being honest and fair by not sticking it to your ex. These two qualities are never wrong. [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img]

Not to cast aspersions against anyone's girlfriend, but were my girlfriend more concerned with money than my son's relationship with his divorced parents I would consider making a change in my life. Being the son of divorced parents myself, I can assure you that discord between the exes is more upsetting to the children than to the parents--but that is a story for another day.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

I wish I could add some deep, introspective, philosophical truth here, Sir Kenyth - but to be honost, I can't.

I think it is wonderful that you and your ex have managed to put your son's feelings ahead of your own. It sounds like both of you have treated the other with mutual respect throughout the entire separation and divorce. This will have a much more positive influence on your son as he grows older.

To be perfectly honost, the only person who is NOT keeping your son's best interest in mind is your girlfriend. She isn't interested in his feelings or how the money will help him. I don't think she is even interested in the extra money for herself. The only thing I think she's interested in is "sticking it to your ex" out of spite and jealousy. I presume the two of them do not get along at all. In fact, I would hazard a guess that whenever your ex-wife comes to pick your son up (if she does) or you talk to her on the phone...your girlfriend is standing just a few feet away and making snide little comments "just loud enough" for your ex to hear. The fact that you ARE treating you ex with kindness and respect is a "threat" to her, because she doesn't feel you are completely hers yet.

I know it's easy for me to say this, since I'm not in the situation...but it sounds to me like you need to have a talk with your girlfriend and explain to her that your relationship with your ex is none of her business. She only needs to be worried about your relationship to her. If she truly cares for you, she will accept that. If she doesn't.....well, that brings up a few other issues.

I would also have a talk with your mom. Has she always hated your ex too? Or is this a recent development, urged on by your current girlfriend? I would expect my mom to back ME up and support MY decision....not my girlfriends.

To be perfectly honost, if my wife and I ever did get divorced, I would be very surprised if she and my mom didn't remain good friends (depending on the circumstances, of course).

I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to contact your ex and ask if she can start helping with the expenses. Your income has gone down and hers has gone up. Like you said, you could force her to pay a lot more if you wanted to...but the fact that you don't should prove that you only want her to help with what's needed to care for your son.

I wish you luck, Sir Kenyth, and I'll keep your situation in my prayers.

[Thoran]

Well this looks to me like two problems that I've had seperately... but in your case they're mixed together.

Problem 1 - Child support, I'm the step-father in my situation, and we have always had custody. In our instance we didn't need the money, and the NCP was not in great financial health. He did briefly pay child support before I was in the picture, but he'd fallen behind and once I was involved I never considered asking for child support. There are a number of reasons for this:
-Maintain a positive environment between the two households. We did not want our boy to come back as a teenager and claim that we tried to sabotage his relationship with is paternal father.
-I've never been one to kick a guy when he's down. He's not a bad guy, so why punish him needlessly.
-Selfishly we also have more leverage when I'm paying all the bills, and I'm not ashamed to say that we want to control the situation as much as possible. This means that we don't have to capitulate instantly every time they want to see him (although we always get him up there within a week of the requested date), and we can keep our agreements verbal instead of litigous.

I guess in a way we feel that doing the right thing and maintaining a good relationship saves us much more than it costs.

Problem 2 - Girlfriend/Wife, I too have an X, and we get along pretty well (I still correspond with her regularly... even after 10 years apart). At first my girlfriend (my current wife) had a LOT of insecurities around my X. For us this diminished over time as she realized that I wasn't going to run back to the X after a big fight. There was occasionally some vindictiveness to my girlfriends actions towards my x-wife... I didn't make any assumptions based on this, it just seemed to be a normal thing. Also in our case recommendations by family and friends were almost universally poor. Only you know your unique circumstances, trust your instincts and ignore outside chatter. (In my case both her folks and mine thought being friendly with my X was "unnatural"... and they're all wrong. They also thought we should stick it to the paternal father, and they're wrong there too. Why would we want to go though all the grief and hard feelings for a few hundred bucks a month... money just isn't that important. If we NEEDED the money, our first course would be to ask for a sensible amount, IMO the court awarded amounts are excessive. "Sticking it to em" would be a absolute last resort)

[ 11-19-2002, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

[Cloudbringer]

Put me firmly in the 'work things out peacefully' camp! Your son is at an age where he will definitely understand there is tension btwn you and your ex if a fight breaks out over money. He's also likely to think it's his fault unless you explain things VERY carefully. If it were me, I'd sit down and have a quiet, heartfelt talk with your ex and explain that you need the $$ to cover everyday expenses/medical insurance and that it would go directly to your son's benefit. See what she says.

As for the gf and family...sigh... it's never easy, is it? I'm in agreement with those who suggest you tell her how important it is to be amicable in dealings with your ex for your son's sake. And just because you COULD take the whole enchilada doesn't mean you SHOULD or even WANT to. In the end, it's up to you how much, if anything, you ask to get from your ex. and if I were in that situation I'd expect my bf to understand that and certainly to care about my child's welfare not just 'you're entitled'.

[ 11-19-2002, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[pritchke]

I haven't had time to read all the post here but people get away with to much. You are entilted to something though. Personally in all fairness you should add up the cost that you speand on your child a month extras like as well and ask your ex-wife to split that cost with you. I am sure if she is a reasonable person she will be more than willing to split the cost of the child. As for the wemon in your life including your mother they are being a little greedy. Just because you can get $900 a month from your wife doesn't mean you should try and get it if it isn't half the amount your spending. Anyway that is the mentaility of todays society looking out for number one, no matter what happens to any one eles. Personally I think you are a good, understanding person, and that is why you don't wish to take advantage of the situation here as it could ruin another person. I think you should try to come to an agreement with your ex-wife that would benifit both parties equally. Leave the girlfriend, mothers and lawyers in the backroom where they belong and settle it a polite way between you. If you are on friedly terms it is best to leave it that way as it is in the best interest of the child. Too many people are willing to make a quick buck in this life at the expense of others so I respect you for trying to find a fair solution.

[Neb]

I agree with the general consensus, if you need it, ask for a bit, but don't be a vulture and squeeze everything that you can from it just because you're legally entitled. I think that you should try to find out why your g/f and your family are being so hostile towards your ex, and try to explain that just because you've broken up with her doesn't mean that you have to hate her.

[Sir Kenyth]

Thank you all for the great feedback. My mother isn't a big problem here. I think she just had bad timing when she decided to mention it. She has since dropped it entirely once she figured out it was a touchy subject. I've found the opinions on this subject vary widely. Many are quick to demand chld support because they are jaded by their own support payment troubles. My girlfriend definately has issues about handling a boyfriend with an ex. Can you say "Temper"? I am struggling a bit financially as of late, which is what brought this whole thing on to begin with. I will ask for the same amount she asked me to pay. Basically, the cost of insurance and incidentals. That worked out to about $200 a month. A satisfactory number considering she has a good job now.

That brings me to another realization. My girlfriend seems to like taking arguments to the point where I get mad and give the "I'm not taking anymore shit of you! See ya later!" attitude. Once it gets to here, then all of a sudden she's sweet as pie the next time I see her. It's not just an act either. It's like all of a sudden, it's resolved because my anger was finally aroused. Hmmmmmmmmm! I've heard of women who act like this, but never dealt with it. Something about they like to see a little aggessiveness in their boyfriends and are willing to aggravate them to see it on occasion. I don't know. Any thoughts?

[Ronn_Bman]

I also have custody of my son from a previous marriage, and admittedly my X and I did not get along well for years after the divorce, but now, nearly ten years later, we get along ok, and the issue of child support was one of many problems we had to overcome.

I'll agree that keeping things "nice" between you and your X is very important, and if you can work this out without grief(doubtful), you should, but that's where my agreement with the majority of statements ends because if things aren't nice for a time because she doesn't want to do what's right, it's not your fault and you shouldn't feel guilty.

You should forget your girlfriend and any relatives pushing you to do this or that. While they may be effected by this situation, it isn't their business. This is about your son, and it sounds like you are the one in his life to make important decisions, so don’t let anyone else tell you how to handle this.

With that said, I’m now going to tell you how to handle this…lol.

Child support isn't money the custodial parent is entitled to, as some are saying. It is money your son is entitled to, and you shouldn't feel guilty about needing this money. If you didn't need it, she should still pay because it's not your job to support this child alone, and the truth of the matter is, it isn't your girlfriend's or any future wife's job to help nor your families. Those we love do spend money on our kids, but it should be because they want to do something nice, not because the child needs it. The idea of child support is that he is entitled to the same lifestyle as if you and his mom were still together and depositing your paychecks in the same account.

No, you don't have to "sock it" to your X, but if your situation has changed and you're "just making ends met", then your son is effected. Why should you be the only one paying health insurance and doctor's bills? That's insane!

If people were saying, "well the two of you are getting along great, why mess it up by insisting she love the child, " you wouldn't be very impressed with that argument. It is the same thing. As a mother, your wife bears a financial responsibility towards the child. Is it fair that she pays child support for another child, but not yours? Your son couldn't benefit from money to which he is rightfully entitled? You shouldn't feel sorry for her, you should feel sorry for your son. Any judge will be quick to tell her that her needs are secondary because child support comes first, but a judge shouldn’t have to tell her or anyone else that. It should be obvious to all parents that your kids comes first. She just bought a new house and can't afford child support? The judge will be happy to tell her to sell it.

Working it out between you two may seem like a good idea, but dealing with money will create stress. Especially, if she resists the idea of paying. Better to have the money taken from her check and given to you through the Child Support agency than to have to ask about her missed/late payments, have her ask if she can skip a month(just one I promise), tell you she bought him a drink and candy bar and that she's taking it off this month's payment, etc. Working it out between the two of you means the money is between her and you, but it shouldn't feel like that to either of you. This money isn't between her and you, it's between her and her son and you are the custodian.

No matter how she feels about paying, leaving the money issue to the courts will help this stay a friendly situation(if she's willing) in the long run. She doesn't have to give you money, she gets used to having it deducted from her check, and the two of you don't have to talk about it anymore.

I don't think this will be pretty because she's never paid, and she's going to think she shouldn't have to now. If she'd wanted to help she'd have done it regularly and all along without being forced. She's had years to help out and hasn't done so voluntarily. I hope I'm wrong and she steps up, but you shouldn't have feel bad about doing it.

We aren't talking about alimony here...we're talking about Child Support. Money to help support the child she and you created. She's suppose to pay, and she should. Not as punishment, but as her financial responsibility to the child the lived within her body for nine months.

If she’s suppose to pay $500 then she should pay $500. It's his money, not hers, and she shouldn't be spending it on anything else. If there’s money left over each month from his check, put it in a college fund from both of you. Give her credit with your son, but don’t make it about money she owes you because that isn’t what it’s about. It’s about money she owes him.

[img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

Being a single parent is hard enough, but stuff like this makes it much worse. Unfortunately, it is a part of the package and has to be addressed. I feel for you because I’ve been there, and I wish you and your son the best.

[ 11-20-2002, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Charean]

The girlfriend sounds insecure in her place with you.

Do what is right, and you can look yourself in the mirror with peace.

[Thoran]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: That brings me to another realization. My girlfriend seems to like taking arguments to the point where I get mad and give the "I'm not taking anymore shit of you! See ya later!" attitude. Once it gets to here, then all of a sudden she's sweet as pie the next time I see her. It's not just an act either. It's like all of a sudden, it's resolved because my anger was finally aroused. Hmmmmmmmmm! I've heard of women who act like this, but never dealt with it. Something about they like to see a little aggessiveness in their boyfriends and are willing to aggravate them to see it on occasion. I don't know. Any thoughts?

Perhaps she feels she's at a disadvantage to you in the relationship, so she's afraid to press issues. If this is the case then LOOKOUT... the day she no longer feels that way is the day you will hear about EVERYTHING you've ever done that she disagreed with... in DETAIL! People can't bottle up problems without them surface later, after they've had some time to fester.

My current wife was relying on me to pay bills before we got married so she was always deferential when push came to shove (even though I NEVER asked her to be). These days she feels at a disadvantage because I'm still paying all the bills and she's basically free to do her own thing (although I've pushed her to make sure part of her "thing" is finishing up her degree). BUT... since we're married, instead of being deferential she just gets mad at ME because she feels that way. Honestly I prefer this to deferential, but it makes things tougher in our relationship than they need to be.

[ 11-20-2002, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Thoran ]