Calling to all who... - Page 2

Dundee Slaytern · 10-26-2005, 07:03 PM

Mages are not the only ones that need to recharge their spells. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Paladins, Clerics, Druids, etc... need to recharge too. Unless you like fighting on HoF unbuffed, in which case, be my guest.

In all my HoF games, it was not the Mage(s) that ran out of spells, but the Priests.

By backup Mage, I meant to use him/her throughout the battle. What I use my Bards for, I have already mentioned in my earlier posts, which you repeated above.

Unless for some unknown reason, you decided to skip out a Thief in your party, Knock is generally not needed. However, I do agree that having one or two backup Knocks is nice, for which the Bard is good for.

Remember, HoF mode. Your Thief will be drowning in skill points.

What I wanted to avoid was people using the Bard like a 'normal' Mage, which may lead them to thinking that the Bard 'sucks' because they are not using the Bard for what a Bard should be doing. In a similar way, this was a major headache in BG2, where people were unfairly comparing the Bard to the F/M/T and concluding that the Bard could go sucks eggs.

NobleNick · 10-31-2005, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
What I wanted to avoid was people using the Bard like a 'normal' Mage, which may lead them to thinking that the Bard 'sucks' because they are not using the Bard for what a Bard should be doing. In a similar way, this was a major headache in BG2, where people were unfairly comparing the Bard to the F/M/T and concluding that the Bard could go sucks eggs.

Ahh... noble endeavor; you just threw me off, going about it the way you did. Yes, someone who got the Bard mainly for her mage skills (or melee skills) would likely be disappointed. A Bard sings; and everything else is icing on the cake. There is, however, a lot of icing: Especially given what you said about mage power being important, I would think that an extra arcane 'pop' at (or just before) the battle would be welcome. I understand, now, though, why you are not willing to specialize the main Mage.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

Aerich · 11-01-2005, 01:47 AM

My bards hardly ever get damage spells to memorize. Any damage spell memorized by a bard has to have more of a tactical effect than just damage - example Chromatic Orb or Icelance for stun effects, Magic Missile to take down Mirror Images.

NobleNick · 11-01-2005, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aerich:
My bards hardly ever get damage spells to memorize. Any damage spell memorized by a bard has to have more of a tactical effect than just damage - example Chromatic Orb or Icelance for stun effects, Magic Missile to take down Mirror Images.

Does each missile hit from MM take out a single image fro MI? That would neutralize a MI quickly. Never thought about this.

Yes, the tactical spells are more valuable for the tough fights. I have restricted my Bard to Necro and utility spells, plus whatever I can get my hands on 2 of; because of saving up spells for the Mage after the F/M DCs. The Bard's mainstay is currently Web and Skull Trap. She was using Monster Summoning; but the MS 1 summons are way wimpy, and I am saving the higher level MS spells for the Mage.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

Aerich · 11-01-2005, 04:30 PM

Yes, each MM takes down an image.

ZFR · 12-03-2005, 07:03 AM

OK I have some more questions about weapons here.

A) Are weapons (and items) improved in HoF like they are in IWD2?
B) Are propotions in weapon types by any chance different that in normal difficulty?

If so what weapon proficiencies should I choose for my party members? If this is HoF I suppose it matters a bit less since they gain more xp and get prof points faster... still... Moreover I'm getting ranged weapon proficiency as soon as possible.

Multi cleric/ranger
Evil Dwarven Multi Fighter/Cleric
Being restricted for with cleric weapons, for both of these I suppose it doesn't matter which profs I choose as pretty soon they'll get all of them. I'll go with slings and hammers first for dwarf, and slings and morningstars for ranger/cleric... then start filling the rest up.

Multi Fighter/Druid
Similar to above... but in what order should I go with mellee weapons?

Multi Fighter/Thief/Mage
Being one of the few who can use non sling ranged, what shoud I give him? Bow or crossbow? I think bow.. For mellee (this guy will be mainly ranged though) I'll go with swords first, since again few other can use them, then axe for same reason...

Bard
Again bow or crossbow? If I give bow to f/m/t am thinking about crossbow here... mellee I'll just go with whatever proficiencies not taken by anyone else.. not really important...

Dual Fighter -> Druid
The biggest question here. The only one who can go beyond **. In what weapon should that be? A *** in slings definately. Then in what mellee *****?? daggers? staffs (I prefer single handed)? clubs?
Also I considered giving him points in bows to use while in fighter, but think it a terrible waste...

Give your opinions.

Aerich · 12-03-2005, 03:54 PM

Weapons and items are not improved like in IWD2. Proportions in weapon type are the same; you get the same weapons, and the only thing that might throw proportions off a little from game to game are random drops.

Weapon choice, clerics: you're right, it doesn't matter very much for clerics. Maybe don't take hammer right away because it doesn't do as much damage and is not appreciably faster without enchantments.

Multi F/D: I'd go scimitar and sling first. Missile weapon because it's a must, scimitar because you may want to use Flameblade or Moonblade. Then club, for skeletons, then spear. Dagger and staff can wait until the end.

F/M/T: Bow, sword, axe, dagger. You probably don't need a blunt weapon, but if you do, take hammer. Maybe get greatsword eventually.

Bard: Sing, foole, sing! Crossbow and whatever melee, but you won't/shouldn't use them anyway.

Dual F/D: Should be 5 PP in either scimitar or club, IMO. Don't give him bow proficiency, it is a waste. Dagger might be ok, but I don't think it does enough damage. There are good random drop clubs available and a couple you can buy. 5 PP in staff would be a mistake; same in spear, because a shield is too important - even though you can get good spears. Give a ** in spear to your multi instead, then it can attack from relative safety.

[ 12-03-2005, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

ZFR · 12-04-2005, 07:49 AM

Thanks Aerich.

Just one more question. About ammo. I remeber from my IWD2 HoF adventure that with all the extra monster HP, ammo would disappear faster than Sameon Havarian from a sinking ship. How do you manage to carry all that in IWD with less inventory space and no bags of holding?

Aerich · 12-04-2005, 07:56 PM

Mostly, it involves filling up almost every available space with ammo. Quite often I end up carrying 40+ stacks of arrows and 20+ stacks of sling bullets, with a 3:2 ratio of archers to slingers in the party. You do need to return to towns more often to reload, e.g. from Dragon's Eye, but it's really not too bad. I went back and forth a fair bit from the Vale because I sold every weapon I picked up - you need every advantage you can get at that stage.

The only real challenge, ammo-wise, in the early game is Kuldahar Pass, because you don't have a clear path back to a town. I loaded up every available space with ammo and still had quite a bit left after I cleared the Pass. Extensive use of Hold Person and Chromatic Orb helps to make every shot count; Sunscorch and particularly Alicorn Lance are also good for that. Charm Person is great to charm a goblin archer and make it attack another archer close up, thereby preserving both of their arrow stacks for your consumption. Alternately, you could make getting to Kuldahar (rather than the ogre's tower) your primary objective and be able to reload and return that way; it has the advantage of giving access to additional helpful mage spells such as Web.

It helps if your bard sings but doesn't shoot - it gives you potentially 19 more slots to carry ammo, one less character to drain the ammo, and will help your shooters to hit more often and do more damage if singing particular songs (Three Heroes or Tymora's). Additionally, your bard probably has a worse Thaco than all the fighter multi and dual classes you should be carrying for HoF.

Edit: quick note on clerics taking hammer... while it's not necessarily the first melee proficiency you should take, it probably should be the second. There's a pretty good chance of getting a +1 hammer in the Vale, and Conlan's hammer isn't too far away.

[ 12-04-2005, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

ZFR · 12-05-2005, 09:04 AM

Thanks again Aerich. Keep us updated on your progress.

11-01-2005, 01:47 AM	#13
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	My bards hardly ever get damage spells to memorize. Any damage spell memorized by a bard has to have more of a tactical effect than just damage - example Chromatic Orb or Icelance for stun effects, Magic Missile to take down Mirror Images. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

11-01-2005, 04:30 PM	#15
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Yes, each MM takes down an image. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

12-03-2005, 07:03 AM	#16
ZFR Legion Symbol Join Date: February 14, 2002 Location: Ireland Age: 39 Posts: 7,367	OK I have some more questions about weapons here. A) Are weapons (and items) improved in HoF like they are in IWD2? B) Are propotions in weapon types by any chance different that in normal difficulty? If so what weapon proficiencies should I choose for my party members? If this is HoF I suppose it matters a bit less since they gain more xp and get prof points faster... still... Moreover I'm getting ranged weapon proficiency as soon as possible. Multi cleric/ranger Evil Dwarven Multi Fighter/Cleric Being restricted for with cleric weapons, for both of these I suppose it doesn't matter which profs I choose as pretty soon they'll get all of them. I'll go with slings and hammers first for dwarf, and slings and morningstars for ranger/cleric... then start filling the rest up. Multi Fighter/Druid Similar to above... but in what order should I go with mellee weapons? Multi Fighter/Thief/Mage Being one of the few who can use non sling ranged, what shoud I give him? Bow or crossbow? I think bow.. For mellee (this guy will be mainly ranged though) I'll go with swords first, since again few other can use them, then axe for same reason... Bard Again bow or crossbow? If I give bow to f/m/t am thinking about crossbow here... mellee I'll just go with whatever proficiencies not taken by anyone else.. not really important... Dual Fighter -> Druid The biggest question here. The only one who can go beyond . In what weapon should that be? A * in slings definately. Then in what mellee *****?? daggers? staffs (I prefer single handed)? clubs? Also I considered giving him points in bows to use while in fighter, but think it a terrible waste... Give your opinions. __________________ ZFR

12-03-2005, 03:54 PM	#17
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Weapons and items are not improved like in IWD2. Proportions in weapon type are the same; you get the same weapons, and the only thing that might throw proportions off a little from game to game are random drops. Weapon choice, clerics: you're right, it doesn't matter very much for clerics. Maybe don't take hammer right away because it doesn't do as much damage and is not appreciably faster without enchantments. Multi F/D: I'd go scimitar and sling first. Missile weapon because it's a must, scimitar because you may want to use Flameblade or Moonblade. Then club, for skeletons, then spear. Dagger and staff can wait until the end. F/M/T: Bow, sword, axe, dagger. You probably don't need a blunt weapon, but if you do, take hammer. Maybe get greatsword eventually. Bard: Sing, foole, sing! Crossbow and whatever melee, but you won't/shouldn't use them anyway. Dual F/D: Should be 5 PP in either scimitar or club, IMO. Don't give him bow proficiency, it is a waste. Dagger might be ok, but I don't think it does enough damage. There are good random drop clubs available and a couple you can buy. 5 PP in staff would be a mistake; same in spear, because a shield is too important - even though you can get good spears. Give a ** in spear to your multi instead, then it can attack from relative safety. [ 12-03-2005, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ] __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

12-04-2005, 07:49 AM	#18
ZFR Legion Symbol Join Date: February 14, 2002 Location: Ireland Age: 39 Posts: 7,367	Thanks Aerich. Just one more question. About ammo. I remeber from my IWD2 HoF adventure that with all the extra monster HP, ammo would disappear faster than Sameon Havarian from a sinking ship. How do you manage to carry all that in IWD with less inventory space and no bags of holding? __________________ ZFR

10-26-2005, 07:03 PM	#11
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 41 Posts: 11,063	Mages are not the only ones that need to recharge their spells. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Paladins, Clerics, Druids, etc... need to recharge too. Unless you like fighting on HoF unbuffed, in which case, be my guest. In all my HoF games, it was not the Mage(s) that ran out of spells, but the Priests. By backup Mage, I meant to use him/her throughout the battle. What I use my Bards for, I have already mentioned in my earlier posts, which you repeated above. Unless for some unknown reason, you decided to skip out a Thief in your party, Knock is generally not needed. However, I do agree that having one or two backup Knocks is nice, for which the Bard is good for. Remember, HoF mode. Your Thief will be drowning in skill points. What I wanted to avoid was people using the Bard like a 'normal' Mage, which may lead them to thinking that the Bard 'sucks' because they are not using the Bard for what a Bard should be doing. In a similar way, this was a major headache in BG2, where people were unfairly comparing the Bard to the F/M/T and concluding that the Bard could go sucks eggs.

12-04-2005, 07:56 PM	#19
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Mostly, it involves filling up almost every available space with ammo. Quite often I end up carrying 40+ stacks of arrows and 20+ stacks of sling bullets, with a 3:2 ratio of archers to slingers in the party. You do need to return to towns more often to reload, e.g. from Dragon's Eye, but it's really not too bad. I went back and forth a fair bit from the Vale because I sold every weapon I picked up - you need every advantage you can get at that stage. The only real challenge, ammo-wise, in the early game is Kuldahar Pass, because you don't have a clear path back to a town. I loaded up every available space with ammo and still had quite a bit left after I cleared the Pass. Extensive use of Hold Person and Chromatic Orb helps to make every shot count; Sunscorch and particularly Alicorn Lance are also good for that. Charm Person is great to charm a goblin archer and make it attack another archer close up, thereby preserving both of their arrow stacks for your consumption. Alternately, you could make getting to Kuldahar (rather than the ogre's tower) your primary objective and be able to reload and return that way; it has the advantage of giving access to additional helpful mage spells such as Web. It helps if your bard sings but doesn't shoot - it gives you potentially 19 more slots to carry ammo, one less character to drain the ammo, and will help your shooters to hit more often and do more damage if singing particular songs (Three Heroes or Tymora's). Additionally, your bard probably has a worse Thaco than all the fighter multi and dual classes you should be carrying for HoF. Edit: quick note on clerics taking hammer... while it's not necessarily the first melee proficiency you should take, it probably should be the second. There's a pretty good chance of getting a +1 hammer in the Vale, and Conlan's hammer isn't too far away. [ 12-04-2005, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ] __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

12-05-2005, 09:04 AM	#20
ZFR Legion Symbol Join Date: February 14, 2002 Location: Ireland Age: 39 Posts: 7,367	Thanks again Aerich. Keep us updated on your progress. __________________ ZFR

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