(Mod) Rogue Rebalancing v4.1 Latest

[Ilyich]

Avenger, I noticed a typo in the description of the Abashai Hide from the Venduris encounter. The typo is a redundant "the" in the second sentence, it is bolded below.

This peculiar armor is rumored to have come from Sigil. Not much is known of its previous owners but the armor seems to have been cut from the hide of a lesser Baatezu, and those who wear the it are bestowed with slight damage and elemental resistances. It is unclear whether these powers come from the hide itself or an enchantment placed upon it.

[aVENGER_[RR]]

Originally Posted by Ilyich Avenger, I noticed a typo in the description of the Abashai Hide from the Venduris encounter.

Thanks! It will be corrected for v3.8. BTW, how did you like the descriptions of the new items introduced by RR? It seems that very few people read them nowadays. Also, any comments on the Chosen of Cyric encounter?

[Ilyich]

BTW, how did you like the descriptions of the new items introduced by RR? It seems that very few people read them nowadays. Also, any comments on the Chosen of Cyric encounter?

They are well written and interesting descriptions. I read all the item descriptions all the time anyway, but these are, for mod items, unusually concise.

As for the fight, the AI is again, extremely good. As a soloist, I had to use Spell Immunity: Enchantment and Conjuration to block the insta-kill effects of Charm and Maze, which are of little consequence for a party, but aside from that, very little spells aside from Stoneskin, PfMW, Breach and Dispel Magic. Celestial Fury made short work of the unprotected Mages and the Thief. Venduris and the other two were little threat after their ranged support were destroyed. I am certain that had I not used a Kensai/Mage, the fight would have been much more difficult.

[aVENGER_[RR]]

Originally Posted by Ilyich They are well written and interesting descriptions. I read all the item descriptions all the time anyway, but these are, for mod items, unusually concise.

Heh, thanks.

I am certain that had I not used a Kensai/Mage, the fight would have been much more difficult.

It might also be due to the gap between your XP and the XP range for which the battle was designed for. I assume your solo character had already maxed out at 8 million XP while the CoC encounter was designed with a 6 person party at about 3 million XP in mind. OTOH, a Kensai/Mage is indeed a very powerful character. BTW, for v3.8 I've made the CoC characters and the Shadow Thieves fight a bit more defensively by putting more effort into prolonged survival instead of maximizing the damage.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally Posted by aVENGER_[RR] Heh, thanks. . . . the CoC encounter was designed with a 6 person party at about 3 million XP in mind.

Well, if it's still at the same point in the game that it has been previously, don't you really mean a five person party with some important baggage?

[aVENGER_[RR]]

Originally Posted by SixOfSpades Well, if it's still at the same point in the game that it has been previously, don't you really mean a five person party with some important baggage?

Not necessarily.

a) Not everyone consummates the romance by this point. For example, if you rush to Spellhold in order to save Imoen quickly, it's entirely possible that your RomanceActive global will still be at 1 (especially if you're romancing Jaheira) which means that Bodhi won't kidnap your significant other.

b) Not everyone plays BG2 for the romance bit. Although the majority of the players will likely engage in a romance, some people will choose not to, or may simply prefer to create their own custom party.

c) Several mod NPCs who are viable romantic interests don't get abducted by Bodhi.

d) It has always been possible to delay the encounter until you resurrect your romantic interest, for those who perfer to face the Chosen of Cyric with a full party. This has been clearly stated in the readme. You just need to lower the difficulty down to "Novice" until you leave the Graveyard area and than raise it back again once you return.

BTW, if none of the above works for you, and you are not a Paladin or a Ranger and don't mind losing a few reputation points, you can even out the odds by transforming into the Slayer and chunking Venduris through a dialogue option before combat starts. Of course, it's also possible to resolve the entire encounter peacefully, via dialogue, thus avoiding combat altogether.

[SixOfSpades]

Yeah, it's just I can't help wondering if it would have been a slightly better move to allow the roleplayer just a bit more leeway when it comes to getting their sweetie back; the placement of the current encounter reads like a deliberate attempt to kick somebody when they're down--and likely out of all their best spells, as well. Personally (and this is just me in nitpicker mode, BTW), I would have the encounter be triggered by the player attempting to leave Athkatla with the Lanthorn.

True, the player can always turn the encounter off temporarily, and even though that's a very nice feature to put into a mod, it still requires metagaming. That's really a no-win kind of dilemma, so you certainly can't be blamed for that . . . but I can needle you for saying that you calibrated the encounter for a party of 6 with roughly 3 million EXP apiece, and then turning right around and using "rushing to Spellhold" as a loophole.

[aVENGER_[RR]]

Originally Posted by SixOfSpades Yeah, it's just I can't help wondering if it would have been a slightly better move to allow the roleplayer just a bit more leeway when it comes to getting their sweetie back; the placement of the current encounter reads like a deliberate attempt to kick somebody when they're down--and likely out of all their best spells, as well.

Well, it is an ambush. You don't really expect a bunch of Cyric's followers (and thieves at that) to politely challenge you do a duel? Also, it's entirely possible to rest inside Bodhi's crypt and in the surface Graveyard area as well. An autosave is made right before you exit Bodhi's lair (and it's no longer being overwritten by the CoC save) so you can always reload and rest in case you forgot to do so beforehand.

Personally (and this is just me in nitpicker mode, BTW), I would have the encounter be triggered by the player attempting to leave Athkatla with the Lanthorn.

Basically, it would have taken a bunch of craptastic workarounds to make the encounter trigger with these conditions. While setting up the CoC as a random encounter is indeed possible, that method is not always 100% reliable and can lead to further issues. Also, when I first designed the encounter (back in 2002) this technique was not known, so I made a choice to make it happen at a certain point in time mainly due to coding reasons. From a RP perspective it could happen at any time before you return to Elhan with the Lanthorn people who delay it in order to resurrect their romantic interest first should not feel bad about it.

...but I can needle you for saying that you calibrated the encounter for a party of 6 with roughly 3 million EXP apiece, and then turning right around and using "rushing to Spellhold" as a loophole.

Heh, good point. However, you can still delay the encounter until you get more XP.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally Posted by aVENGER_[RR] Well, it is an ambush. You don't really expect a bunch of Cyric's followers (and thieves at that) to politely challenge you do a duel? Also, it's entirely possible to rest inside Bodhi's crypt and in the surface Graveyard area as well.

Very true--and CHARNAME is well known to have spent a good deal of time in Athkatla and in association with Bodhi (either for or against her), so the Graveyard District is a natural spot for them to look for you. The only problem is that players turning the encounter 'Off' until they're ready for it, or resting in Bodhi's lair for that specific reason, pretty much defeats the whole nature of "ambush" in the first place. I'm not exactly complaining, or asking for a change, I'm just saying it would probably have been more fun as an actual random encounter, where I actually am caught unprepared (but without gratuitous disadvantages, like having a dead Aerie in my bags, or being trapped in a dead-end ravine like the Tactics encounters).

You say there's no way to ensure 100% odds of getting the encounter . . . personally, I see nothing really wrong with that. One of my mod ideas is to take the Drizzt encounter and reduce the odds of it happening from 100% to 10%, and write up 9 new encounters for that same slot, each of which is equally likely to happen. Less metagaming to pick certain spells in advance to counter known contingencies. More random. More fun.

[aVENGER_[RR]]

Originally Posted by SixOfSpades The only problem is that players turning the encounter 'Off' until they're ready for it, or resting in Bodhi's lair for that specific reason, pretty much defeats the whole nature of "ambush" in the first place.

Not really. While delaying the encounter via difficulty slider can be viewed as metagaming when just the game mechanics are considered, in RP terms, it's quite feasible that the party returned to Atkhatla to restock their supplies after the trip to Amaunator's altar and got ambushed then.

I'm not exactly complaining, or asking for a change, I'm just saying it would probably have been more fun as an actual random encounter, where I actually am caught unprepared (but without gratuitous disadvantages, like having a dead Aerie in my bags, or being trapped in a dead-end ravine like the Tactics encounters).

Well, it does feel a bit more like a random encounter in v3.8, complete with the ominous "You have been waylaid by enemies..." sound, but that's basically just fluff, it's still completely scripted. That change came about a while ago when I decided to scrap the graveyard area cutscene in order to avoid potential compatibility issues. See here for more details