Is Peace profitable? Is sickness prevention profitable?

[Yorick]

I have heard more than once, that the technology exists for a lightglobe that doesn't run out to be made.

But what company would make money from it? Will it then hit stores? Not in a capitalist economy.....

Back in 1992 I read an article in Time magazine that listed all the major recording companies of the time.

1.Sony - Japanese
2.Polygram (Phillips) - Dutch
3.Warner (Time/Warner) - American
4.BMG (Bertelesmann) - German
5.EMI (Thorne) - British

All of the major companies were owned by companies that made CDs electronic goods (CD players), whitegoods, planes and.... arms. Yep. Bombs, guns, tanks etc etc.

What hope did a peace activist musician have when all the majors bought up all the indie labels like 'Island?' (Bob Marley's label that went to Polygram).

Polygram's gone BTW. Now it's Vivendi/Universal.

Anyhow, Arms manufacturers make money selling weapons to places like Turkey. And the average American male it seems. And previously Iraq etc etc etc.

So this is my question.

Will peace ever eventuate while the almighty dollar rules? Isn't it in Arm manufacturers interests to keep war, crime, gang wars etc going so they can make money? Like the tobacco industry used to be? An industry perpetuating death?

Similarly will true health prevention ever eventuate unless people can make economic sense of it. The way the status quo is now, there's so much money changing hands. With illness comes a large doctors fee, the doctors insurance, the lawyers who go to court over malpractice, the patients insurance to cover the huge doctors fees that are covering increased insurance hikes.

So much money made from people being ill.

Am I too cynical?

[Yorick]

If you can make sense of my post I salute you. It's 5:30 am, and I should've been in bed ages ago. Was songwriting and my brain was buzzing, but now I can barely keep my eyes open.

Goodnight. Read you on the morrow all....

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

Peace is an impossible dream. It has been since the dawn of time. People always have and always will kill each other. Look to history for proof. From mans earliest recorded history there are accounts of wars fought over food,pride,land and religion. As long as 2 people find a reason to disagree tey will find a reason for violence.

Health care prevention is an easy one.All you have to do is go out and do something. Being active is the best prevention for illness and disease known to man. A strong bodie makes for a strong immune system. In my experience my family and friends who live the most sedentary lives are also the most sickly. THe bigest example of this in my life is my 2 grandmothers. one has been a housewife her whole life and never realy been very active. She has to take over 9 pills a day to maintain her health. There are pills for High bloodpressure,osteoporosis,stomach ulcers,arthritis pain and other problems associated with ageing. My other grandmother has always been active and now at 79 can still CARRY her golf bag for a round of 18 holes. She doesnt have any problems with her health aside from sore muscles and joints when it rains.

[Barry the Sprout]

You know me Yorick... All together now:

One Solution!!!

Revolution!!!



But, in all seriousness, I quite agree. It's depressing until you realise that that system is obviously unsustainable. It is repulsive to our very nature, as you just pointed out. Capitalism creates the seeds of its own downfall. Which is less depressing. I just wish it would hurry up...

I have heard that there exists a carbeurator that will allow cars to get 80 miles per gallon, I have also heard that there is a secret society called the Trilateral commission that rules the world, I have also head that Space Aliens are responsible for cattle mutilations.

What I havn't actually seen is that there is any proof that any of that BS is true. If it is possible to make it Yorick, do so, then sell it cheap and make a billion dollars. You can't and no one can because there is always a little detail that gets left out of the story. The item require something that doesnt exist, or it would cost the equivelent of the national debt to make or...the list goes on and on.

All the world is a conspiracy, the big evil corporations are keeping the proletariat down! down with corporations up with people!

Originally posted by MagiK: I have heard that there exists a carbeurator that will allow cars to get 80 miles per gallon, I have also heard that there is a secret society called the Trilateral commission that rules the world, I have also head that Space Aliens are responsible for cattle mutilations. What I havn't actually seen is that there is any proof that any of that BS is true. If it is possible to make it Yorick, do so, then sell it cheap and make a billion dollars. You can't and no one can because there is always a little detail that gets left out of the story. The item require something that doesnt exist, or it would cost the equivelent of the national debt to make or...the list goes on and on. All the world is a conspiracy, the big evil corporations are keeping the proletariat down! down with corporations up with people!

Is there any actual point to this post?
You don’t seem to actually be able to refute or make any argument against what Yorick says, apart from labeling his a post a paranoid bit of conspiracy theory and therefore attempting to write off his points while trying to avoid dealing with any issues they bring up.

To take one point, that of military contracting,
The US Military (for example) exists (It seems) for the singular purpose of providing big Fat Orders to Contractors.
The Gigantic bloated US defence budget is spent in huge amounts on contracts to various US companies, and the huge chain of Compromise & corruption this creates can be quite nasty. (Crusader Self propelled artillery anyone?)
And another thing, Y’know the US Gives aid to Israel right?
Well the strings attached to it, forces Israel spend most of that on buying US Made weapons.
Is that good?
Is that Right?

[ 10-24-2002, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Eisenschwarz ]

Boy you read more into that than I could ever have imagined [img]smile.gif[/img] Very good you get an A+. Now, is there any point to your post other than to cause me grief and angst? I suppose your post is no more valid than my own.

My post was to point out that we have all heard the Socialistic proselytization and we have heard the capitalistic ones as well, We have historical evidence that socialistic non-corporate systems that havent done well. We have some really wildly successful capitalistic societies that have given the people living under it a level of freedom and comfort never experienced before in the world. So my point would be that The answer is yes, Capitalism does work. Peace is profitable AND I would like you to know, you are not being deprived of your right to everlasting lightbulbs.

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: To take one point, that of military contracting, The US Military (for example) exists (It seems) for the singular purpose of providing big Fat Orders to Contractors. The Gigantic bloated US defence budget is spent in huge amounts on contracts to various US companies, and the huge chain of Compromise & corruption this creates can be quite nasty. (Crusader Self propelled artillery anyone?) And another thing, Y’know the US Gives aid to Israel right? Well the strings attached to it, forces Israel spend most of that on buying US Made weapons. Is that good? Is that Right? I made a special point of posting to this issue seperately because it shows one heaping pile of ignorance about the military. (now look up the word ignorance, it isn't a mean and nasty name or perjorative, it is just an adjective) If you think that all the military does is spend your hard earned money giving it to contractors. why not serve for a couple of years and actually get educated on the issue? Oh by the way, Contractors...are people, they have families, wives, husbands, children they do their jobs, they earn their money and they deserve every right to have a job as a burger flipper at the Micky D's. Please post a contract number so I can look up that "string" you talked about. the only string Im aware of is that the Israelies are not allowed to turn around and sell the technology and as far as I can tell the Isralies only buy part of their arms from the US. They develop their own for the most part. Their MBT (Main Battle Tank it is called the Merkava.) is of their own superior design, their small arms are of their own design (ever hear of the Uzi?) I think you may have some facts mixed.

[ 10-24-2002, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Forgot to mention that sickness prevention is what the company I work for is all about. Wether it is Flu shots or prenatal vitamin programs. Kaiser Permanente knows that it is way cheaper to keep the clients healthy than to fix things after the fact. Our whole business model is based on prevention so I don't know where you could get the idea that there is no effort to prevent sickness or to make life a more pleasent period for everyone.
I also can tell you to forget the idea we only help those who can pay. We are a non-profit company and we spend millions every year helping the needy.

Originally posted by MagiK: I made a special point of posting to this issue seperately because it shows one heaping pile of ignorance about the military. (now look up the word ignorance, it isn't a mean and nasty name or perjorative, it is just an adjective) If you think that all the military does is spend your hard earned money giving it to contractors. why not serve for a couple of years and actually get educated on the issue?

Well, I’m sorry if that offended you,
But although it is not particularly relevant, I have been giving Serious thought to enlisting in TEH ARMY, but not The US one, Since I don’t live there. I still wouldn’t place it on a pedestal though, The army serves the state, and the state isn’t always right or pure.
Also, I'm not sure whether I could get educated on that sort of issue, Since I'd presume that It'd be something to do with the quartermasters general or equivlillent, or maybe High ranking officers, Or perhaps even Government minister (Prob. The Ministry of Defense) who decide on what the army gets, and their funding etc.
And I'm not Sure wether I'd acutally get to be one of those persons, but You never know.

Originally posted by MagiK: Oh by the way, Contractors...are people, they have families, wives, husbands, children they do their jobs, they earn their money and they deserve every right to have a job as a burger flipper at the Micky D's.

Contractors tend to be Ex-army officers, who get these extremly well paid jobs as a favour.
how It works is, You are in the army, You make a fat contract with these contractors, then when you leave the army, these contractors out of gratitude then Give you a nice little job with them.
rinse and reapeat.

Originally posted by MagiK: Please post a contract number so I can look up that "string" you talked about. the only string Im aware of is that the Israelies are not allowed to turn around and sell the technology and as far as I can tell the Isralies only buy part of their arms from the US. They develop their own for the most part.

Yeah, They've licensed and Accurised to a certain extent upon the AK in the Gali? (Can't remember) But ever see the Rifle The ISreali Army uses?
Why, It's the M16 of course.

Originally posted by MagiK: Their MBT (Main Battle Tank it is called the Merkava.) is of their own superior design, their small arms are of their own design (ever hear of the Uzi?) I think you may have some facts mixed.

Israel owes $5.6 billion to commercial U.S. banks and the U.S. government from 15 arms sales loans dating back to 1976, Pentagon documents show. The Pentagon data, documenting the status of loans and loan guarantees issued under the Arms Export Control Act, is contained in a January 28 letter from the acting director of the Defense Security Assistance Agency, Diehl McKalip, to the House Speaker Newt Gingrich.