People overreacting on Twin Tower?

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Memnoch: Goodness, what a provocative turn of phrase. Like a faintly sputtering cigarette carelessly thrown into dry scrub in the heat of summer.

Love the cracking metaphor.......



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[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Nachtrafe: Man Dio...I remember you from MH, and you were a rational, intelligent speaker. Well...you are still intelligent. But the comments I've been reading in the last couple of days are making me lean towards the "If you dont like it so much, get the heck out" side of the fence. You're attitude is really out of hand.

Ah, the old "love it or leave it" argument. Nactrafe, I addressed this sentiment recently, a bit before you joined. Here is the thread:
http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/No...ML/002953.html

What about my attitude is out of hand?

What particular comments of mine are you so upset about?

For the record, when it comes to history, I believe above all we should be honest about it. I have no axe to grind, other than I desire to know the truth about what has really been going on in the world.




[This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 09-13-2001).]

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Donut: What are you basing that comment on Morodin?

I agree. I've also been in England (WOW ) and the people I met there seemed to be relatively well informed in world politics - most Americans I've met weren't. . The difference is that Europe is a "community", kind of. The actions of one nation affect the other, so it is important for us to know what is going on in Europe. And because America is very powerful, we've got to know what is going on there too. Whereas America is the most powerful nation, has ~250 million (don't know the exact number) inhabitants and doesn't NEED to know what we are thinking. Though it would be nice for people to hear more about us over there.

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Kazara

Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Kaz: Though it would be nice for people to hear more about us over there.

Believe me, Kaz, there are plenty of us who want and NEED to hear more about what's going on everywhere else.

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"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: For the record, when it comes to history, I believe above all we should be honest about it. I have no axe to grind, other than I desire to know the truth about what has really been going on in the world. I am sorry that people get uncomfortable when the truth turns out to be something other than kindergarten level stories about George Washington and the cherry tree.

I agree to that Dio (why is my computer acting up? Guess I'll have to reboot it). It is important to know all about your history as objectively as possible so that you can learn from mistakes made and prevent them from being made again. That is my view on these things. Oh and BTW Azurewolf, I know EXACTLY what you mean. Comments like that make me fume too (I posted a thread on this subject "on patriotism") but try not to post something insulting and try to control yourself, okay? If it's too difficult, then open a rant thread in a deserted forum and delete it as soon as you're done

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Kazara

Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: By the way, further to my arms comment above, ... I forgot to mention that the US is the world's largest exporters of arms, exporting four times as much as the dear old UK, which comes in second. Peace, purrrfect peace...... I'm sure there must be stats somewhere as to just who the arms went to. Although if your ruling lot are anything like ours, there's bound to have been a few cover ups when it comes to supplying certain parts of the world.

My college proffesor was in the Airforce, Nuke division. He was telling us yesterday that our biggest export is in fact, weapons. The second biggest is entertainment(Hollywood).
.
He said that we have sold to both sides of an opposing force in the past, because money is money, and we needed to make it somehow. (that was hard for me to hear).
Anyway, he was telling me about some of our nasty weapons of war...such as the cluster bomb. It is a bomb that when explodes, spreads 644 smaller multi-type bombs across a quadrant. Some are timed, some are motion sensitive, some are heavy weight sensitive, some are shrapnel based, some are bio's...etc...
This is the ugliest weapon we have, except for a Nuke. And just like the Nukes, where the only way it can be launched is by using a code word that even the President don't know, the Cluster Bomb cannot be used unless a certain authority gives the proper codes to release it. Not anyone can do it.
I am glad that we have that control capability.
.
Yet my teacher said that none of these would be considered in the war to come, because we have so many other resources to use against our enemies. If we wanted, we could just pay a country to go in and do it themselves. The Saudi Arabians would love to do that for us. We have so many options, that nukes are not even thought about (I am stressing this because last night my sister was afraid that we would ...)...anyway, if we completely wiped out the country our enemy is in, NATO would hold us in a charge of Overkill, and we would be charged with "crimes of war". Many of my class mates were shocked to learn that, even if we were to lose millions in some sort of Bio-warfare, if we retaliated in like manner, we would be seen as the uglier person.
He gave an example of what he meant. People who blow up abortion clinics and profess to be christians, are not christians.
I just wanted to share what I was told yesterday. Every piece of information and opinion is valuable to me, for higher learning.




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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
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Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Kaz: I agree. I've also been in England (WOW ) and the people I met there seemed to be relatively well informed in world politics - most Americans I've met weren't. . The difference is that Europe is a "community", kind of. The actions of one nation affect the other, so it is important for us to know what is going on in Europe. And because America is very powerful, we've got to know what is going on there too. Whereas America is the most powerful nation, has ~250 million (don't know the exact number) inhabitants and doesn't NEED to know what we are thinking. Though it would be nice for people to hear more about us over there.

This is in response to Donut also

First of all to make the statement that the majority of Americans are uninformed of world affairs, just b/c you have met a few Americans or have traveled to America is absolutely ridiculous...that is why I made the sarcastic comment above. I have been to England and throughout Europe and have met many, many people through my travels, and I am willing to say, for every American that you can find that is uninformed or does not care about world affairs, that I can find one person in Europe also!

My sister-in-laws boyfriend thought that Minnesota was a province in Canada

A flat-mate of my friend, that I stayed with in London, asked if I could see the Rocky Mountains from my apartment when I told him I lived in a highrise in Minnepolis

Again you cannot base your 'majority' opinion of a nation on the basis of having met a handful of Americans...likewise neither can I for Europe!

And Kaz, knowing what is going on in the rest of Europe is not the same as knowing about what is going on in the rest of the world! I could say the same thing about New Yorkers knowing about what is going on in California...while they are states rather than countries, their distance is far greater and their peoples are probably almost as diverse!


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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: He said that we have sold to both sides of an opposing force in the past, because money is money, and we needed to make it somehow. (that was hard for me to hear).

Britain has also sold to both sides, on many occasions, in fact it's pretty much par for the course. The arms trade doesn't take any prisoners (if you'll excuse the expression.) Arms trading is an excellent source of revenue for both the US and Britain.

Larry, if you'd like some facts and figures on the financial aspects of the global arms trade, then this is a useful site.

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade.asp

As well giving figures for total global spend on arms last year (US$ 800 billion, including ops, personnel, etc), there are breakdowns giving percentage of arms sold by the US and other countries to the middle east, developing countries, and so on.

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[This message has been edited by Silver Cheetah (edited 09-13-2001).]

Amen Moridin!

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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Moridin: This is in response to Donut also First of all to make the statement that the majority of Americans are uninformed of world affairs, just b/c you have met a few Americans or have traveled to America is absolutely ridiculous...that is why I made the sarcastic comment above. I have been to England and throughout Europe and have met many, many people through my travels, and I am willing to say, for every American that you can find that is uninformed or does not care about world affairs, that I can find one person in Europe also!

Going by the huge number of tabloid papers sold in Britain, not to mention the fact that the soaps are generally the most watched programms when you look at the TV audience listings, I am convinced that there are a HUGE number of Brit's who don't know their international arse from their elbow. I haven't personally met any of them to speak to, but I know they're out there!




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