Spells

[Aragorn1]

Originally posted by ZFR: quote: Originally posted by Marty4: Annoying manual, whose idea was it to put the spells in alphabetical order? Idiot.

Not really.
I think the reason was that unlike IWD1 there are no longer separate cleric and mage spells. Now paladins, rangers, druids, clerics, bards and mages all got separate spells and moreover there are spells which are of different level for different classes. That's why it wouldve been more difficult, and perhaps more confusing, to put spells levelwise. Because some spells qualify for different levels. and having them repeated in different levels wouldve made it more confusing. [/QUOTE]They managed in bg2 and some cleric and mage spells were the same and at different levels. All that it would mean was more tables.

[Aragorn1]

Originally posted by Bernardo: quote: Originally posted by Bozos of Bones: Next level after 30 is godhood. Don't worry, it's unatainable. And the only way to reach level 30 is to go HoF mode. And Meteor Swarm is a level 9 spell, and Gate is too. Along with Black Blade of Disaster, Executioner Eyes, Mass Dominate and Summon Monster IX of the unmentioned untill now. Of all these, I find the BBoD trememdously weak. Malavon's Rage is a tactical spell. Use only in certain conditions. If that's the only level 7 spell you've learnt so far, though luck. My 1st would either be P Spray, or DBFireball.

HoF you say....

well, actually I was thinking of bringing up, cause I just walk around and kill without taking damage... [/QUOTE]This won't be an issue in Hof. The monster can go through my 4fighter/20barbarians hit points real fast. Between my clerics i have about 8 heals and 3 mass heals and its not all that unusual to use them all, especially if they get it in their heads to attack my sorcs and wotb/fod doesn't work and their too close for the aoe spells.

[Magness]

Originally posted by Aragorn1: quote: Originally posted by Bernardo: quote: Originally posted by Bozos of Bones: Next level after 30 is godhood. Don't worry, it's unatainable. And the only way to reach level 30 is to go HoF mode. And Meteor Swarm is a level 9 spell, and Gate is too. Along with Black Blade of Disaster, Executioner Eyes, Mass Dominate and Summon Monster IX of the unmentioned untill now. Of all these, I find the BBoD trememdously weak. Malavon's Rage is a tactical spell. Use only in certain conditions. If that's the only level 7 spell you've learnt so far, though luck. My 1st would either be P Spray, or DBFireball.

HoF you say....

well, actually I was thinking of bringing up, cause I just walk around and kill without taking damage... [/QUOTE]This won't be an issue in Hof. The monster can go through my 4fighter/20barbarians hit points real fast. Between my clerics i have about 8 heals and 3 mass heals and its not all that unusual to use them all, especially if they get it in their heads to attack my sorcs and wotb/fod doesn't work and their too close for the aoe spells. [/QUOTE]If I understand you right, you're talking about HOF combat...

If you are having to use that many Heals, you must not be using many summons and not enough Will based spells.

IMHO, the real key to success in HOF is just that ... heavy use of summoned monsters and Will-based spells. Why Will-based spells, you ask? Because in HOF, the enemy monsters all have seriously hyped up Fortitude saves which make many damaging and killing spells much weaker. OTOH, HOF monsters have the same ol' Will saves that they have in normal mode. HOF monsters are very vulnerable to all sorts of Enchantment spells from the uber-great Mass Dominate and Symbol of Hopelessness, all the way down to the humble level 1 spell, Charm Person.

If you use Mass Dominate, you can get an enemy force to kill themselves. OTOH, if you use a stunning type of Will spell, like symbol of hopelessness, you can use those multi-round damaging spells like Fiery Cloud, Acid Fog, Sipke Stones, etc. to really dump crap loads of damage on your enemies over a long period of time.

Also, it really helps to use a lot of summoned monsters. They don't even have to be the great higher level ones. Remember that even the monsters you get with a measly Summon Monster/Animal 2 or 3 will have the same number of HP as their HOF enemy equivalents. HOF summons make for great cannon fodder. Even if they don't actually kill any enemies, they will cause considerable numbers of enemies to target THEM rather than the party, thus making it easier for your party to survive.


Trying to use traditional normal mode tactics in HOF tends to be rather painful since most damaging spells do not keep pace with number of HP that HOF monsters have. IMHO, you just can't deliver enough AoE nuking damage quick enough against the more numerous and tougher (i.e. more HP) HOF monsters. It might, with enough Heal spells, be possible to survive in HOF using Normal mode tactics. However, you will find that developing new tactics for HOF can make it much easier to actually *succeed* without worrying about hanging on for dear life. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Aragorn1]

Oh, its only when i get mobbed. Mostly 20 wail of the banshees sorts them out. The beauty of two sorcs and a mage. I just get bored of summoning sometimes and decide to hack it out. Shadows and undead are the two most effective if find. Its just that if i use summons the battles are reduced to the same tactics everytime. Oh and with the aoe nuking thing, you can when you have a magic heavy party, i.e. two sorcs, a theif mage, and a cleric of lathander. Three meteor storms at once x3, nothing much gets through that without being badly wounded. [img]smile.gif[/img]

What i'm trying to say is i can do it the text book way and take hardly any damage, but sometimes i do it the hard way for a bit more of a challange. In fact, hof is in many ways easier than normal mode. Most of the groups that caused a problem in normal mode are rapidly reduced by 3 casters casting wotb. I haven't found too many enemies that don't die.

[ 03-29-2005, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Aragorn1 ]

[Magness]

I suppose that with a really magic heavy party, you can nuke'em til they glow. I've never had a lot of success with WotB in HOF because it's a Fort save spell.

Regarding summons, I don't always use them for their offensive firepower. A lot of the time, it's just about evening the odds. If the bad guys have a dozen baddies, 2-3 summons will change the odds from 2 to 1 to something closer to 3 to 2. I just don't like letting the enemy swarm my tanks at the start of the battle to the point that they are at risk of being overrun by the numbers. Even a couple of summons can even the odds a little and give your party just enough time to even the odds a little more.

[Bernardo]

Ok, I got to 9th level spells... not bad at all! I got gate for now, but I'de like to get meteor swarm next...

[Aragorn1]

Gate was probably the wrong first choice. Mass dominate, wail of the banshee and meteor swarm and possibly aegis would have been better choices imho.

[Bozos of Bones]

Nah, Gate is great, as long as you keep casting it behind the enemies, as far away from you as possible. The demon will not turn on you as long as you're not the closest target, and not attacking him specifically.

[Magness]

I've never liked using Gate a lot, but it can be fun from time to time.

In HOF, I dropped a Gate demon into the "troll room" in the Ice Temple. About the only thing I had to do was be ready to kill the trolls that the demon had brought near to death. Otherwise the dumb demon would have just kept on whacking him.

Heck, Gate can be an amusing choice in any HOF battle where there's a big mob of enemies and some spellcasters behind the enemy lines. Just summon in a demon to spread the joy with the enemy's spellcasters!


That said, Mass Dominate is my favorite level 9 spell. There's nothing quite like getting the enemy to kill themselves. There's nothing bad that can come of it. Bad guys hacking up bad guys.

[Aragorn1]

Originally posted by Bozos of Bones: Nah, Gate is great, as long as you keep casting it behind the enemies, as far away from you as possible. The demon will not turn on you as long as you're not the closest target, and not attacking him specifically.

Protection from evil?

I'm not sying gate isn;t useful but i could live without it for a while in favour of some of the other spells. Other summons can do the job just as well, particulalry at the stage of the game he must be at.