Flexible party in Insane -- 2nd time round! - Page 2

Ultra Marine · 02-01-2006, 08:20 PM

I like daggers too, especially the poison ones. I use them hard mage/cleric.

Anybody know about non-random staff?

Aerich · 02-02-2006, 03:22 AM

I will put in my $0.02 about the high level fighter/mage dual class - it's great, by far the best dual class combo out there. However, I wouldn't have more than one or two dual classes in a single party. IMO, a F[3]/Dr[x] dc is a waste on higher than normal difficulty. The mc is just so much better with weapons...

I still don't see a need for a paladin to have more than one blunt weapon proficiency. You don't need a +1 mace to take out simple skeletons, a normal bludgeoning weapon will do. The only real reason for it, IMO, is so that the pally can use the Shocking Flail (or hammer flail, early on) or Three White Doves (undead-killing mace) as the situation requires. However, I view it as convenience, not necessity. If the pally has at least two of bows, swords, or axes, it should have ample weapons options without needing 2 bludgeoning options.

The scimitar proficiency with a druid is necessary for the Flameblade and Moonblade spells. Flameblade is great for finishing trolls, and Moonblade is fantastic against undead (double damage, meaning 2-24, no strength bonus). The Lucky Scimitar is a good investment until you find Frostbrand and Valiant.

There is a non-random staff available in Conlan's smithy. It's either +2 or +3, with no special abilities. Personally, I'd rather invest a ranger's blunt weapon proficiencies in flail. There's also Arundel's staff, but that might be for druids only; anyway, it's only +1 (with benefits).

Spears are a good choice for two-handed weapons because of those two non-random drops, and there's the Spear of White Ash in Conlan's to tide you over until you hit Wyrm's Tooth. In terms of availability, I'd rank the two-handers like this: greatsword, spear, greataxe, halberd, staff.

ister · 02-02-2006, 09:55 AM

Another advantage of great sword for a ranger is that you can use a bastard sword when you want the extra apr.

I personally would never give 2 handed swords to ranger. The extra apr is just too useful.

Ultra Marine · 02-02-2006, 08:08 PM

I don't have iwd here to test it out. [img]smile.gif[/img] that's why I'm talking more than playing !!! Rangers do get extra apr with 2hand weapons. Can someone test it out please?

I would give 2hand-weapons to at least 2 of my team mates. It would allow him to stand behind summons and poke with a spear for example.

Also, you can equipt a rings of free action and a spear then hit someone who is Entangled without being attacked. Grease+Entalgle works best. hmmmm... I'm not sure a double entangle works?

Kyrvias · 02-02-2006, 10:47 PM

Nope, though Entangle+Web works well enough.

Aerich · 02-02-2006, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ultra Marine:
I don't have iwd here to test it out. [img]smile.gif[/img] that's why I'm talking more than playing !!! Rangers do get extra apr with 2hand weapons. Can someone test it out please?

hmmmm... I'm not sure a double entangle works?

Well, I just made a test for Apr with a ranger using a two-handed weapon. And... [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] you're right, they do get the extra attack!! I tested it with staff, and got 2.5 apr with staff specialization on a beginner ranger. I even took it into combat and turned on the to-hit-rolls option for the feedback window so I could be certain. Sure enough, 5 attacks every two rounds. Very, very strange game exploit here. I could swear that I've used two-handers before with a single-classed ranger without getting the extra apr (pretty sure I was using a spear). Any explanations, Azred? Dundee?

On your second point, I can confirm that the Entangle spell stacks with itself and any other spell you care to name. Doubling up on Entangle is a winning strategy against ogres when beginning HoF with a new party.

Ultra Marine · 02-03-2006, 01:53 AM

@Aerich -- Thanks mate. DC f9/mage armed with axes are the best. I just completed the game with one! Just can't stand the wait.

So a elf ranger with bows/gsword/staff will be worth it don't you think?
1)+1 with bows, +1 with dex
2)Extra apr with 2handweapons
3)Great Sword is non-random
4)Staff adds to blunt damage and there is a +3 non random staff on top of the elf tower (i think).
5)More entangle spells later on, more so in HoF.

Aerich · 02-03-2006, 03:53 AM

Yeah, the wait is bad - if you think a lvl 9 is bad, try a lvl 13.

The dc isn't a great option on higher difficulty levels because spell flexibility within the party is just sooo valuable on HoF and to a lesser extent on Insane. I'm more inclined to take the mc F/M even though the dc is considerably better at dishing out the pain... in the last 1/3 of the game.

Well, my play style tends toward heavy spell access, so I haven't played a pure ranger in a while. However, they are extremely capable archer/scout/offensive melee types, and it will fit that role well in your party as listed above. It's never a bad thing to have a dedicated long-range attacker.

I believe the staff in the SH is random, but there are other options if you don't get it. Staff is ok as long as you don't mind giving up the useful effects of some of the one-handed weapons in favour of the two-hander. Don't forget, you may wish to carry a shield for this character, although not equipped, for when/if the ranger gets targeted - bastard swords and shields are a good combo.

Are you going to do the game on Insane then take the party to HoF? Just a side note, I did that and got bored. When a near-max paladin can walk through all the undead areas and explode everything, it takes away from the challenge.

Azred · 02-03-2006, 02:38 PM

The "extra attack" given to rangers must be an effect applied to the class/character; the game engine implements this in such a manner that it doesn't matter what weapon is being wielded. So, if you create a ranger and have a two-handed weapon you want to use then enjoy.

I don't think I've ever used a ranger in IWD. Instead, I just use a multi-class fighter/druid.

lost prophet · 02-04-2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ultra Marine:
@Aerich -- Thanks mate. DC f9/mage armed with axes are the best.

DC F[13]/M[x] are the absolute mint my freind. It's a pity you cant be bothered waiting because these guys are the funnest class i have ever played (BG1&2, NWN, IWD) and they churn through basically everything if you have the right spell selection ( which i mucked up on my character lol).
You mentioned above your not playing much, hope you can get back to it soon.

[ 02-04-2006, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: lost prophet ]

02-02-2006, 03:22 AM	#12
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	I will put in my $0.02 about the high level fighter/mage dual class - it's great, by far the best dual class combo out there. However, I wouldn't have more than one or two dual classes in a single party. IMO, a F[3]/Dr[x] dc is a waste on higher than normal difficulty. The mc is just so much better with weapons... I still don't see a need for a paladin to have more than one blunt weapon proficiency. You don't need a +1 mace to take out simple skeletons, a normal bludgeoning weapon will do. The only real reason for it, IMO, is so that the pally can use the Shocking Flail (or hammer flail, early on) or Three White Doves (undead-killing mace) as the situation requires. However, I view it as convenience, not necessity. If the pally has at least two of bows, swords, or axes, it should have ample weapons options without needing 2 bludgeoning options. The scimitar proficiency with a druid is necessary for the Flameblade and Moonblade spells. Flameblade is great for finishing trolls, and Moonblade is fantastic against undead (double damage, meaning 2-24, no strength bonus). The Lucky Scimitar is a good investment until you find Frostbrand and Valiant. There is a non-random staff available in Conlan's smithy. It's either +2 or +3, with no special abilities. Personally, I'd rather invest a ranger's blunt weapon proficiencies in flail. There's also Arundel's staff, but that might be for druids only; anyway, it's only +1 (with benefits). Spears are a good choice for two-handed weapons because of those two non-random drops, and there's the Spear of White Ash in Conlan's to tide you over until you hit Wyrm's Tooth. In terms of availability, I'd rank the two-handers like this: greatsword, spear, greataxe, halberd, staff. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

02-02-2006, 09:55 AM	#13
ister Drow Warrior Join Date: January 12, 2005 Location: usa Age: 56 Posts: 291	Another advantage of great sword for a ranger is that you can use a bastard sword when you want the extra apr. I personally would never give 2 handed swords to ranger. The extra apr is just too useful. __________________ \" Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.\"<br />JFK

02-03-2006, 03:53 AM	#18
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Yeah, the wait is bad - if you think a lvl 9 is bad, try a lvl 13. The dc isn't a great option on higher difficulty levels because spell flexibility within the party is just sooo valuable on HoF and to a lesser extent on Insane. I'm more inclined to take the mc F/M even though the dc is considerably better at dishing out the pain... in the last 1/3 of the game. Well, my play style tends toward heavy spell access, so I haven't played a pure ranger in a while. However, they are extremely capable archer/scout/offensive melee types, and it will fit that role well in your party as listed above. It's never a bad thing to have a dedicated long-range attacker. I believe the staff in the SH is random, but there are other options if you don't get it. Staff is ok as long as you don't mind giving up the useful effects of some of the one-handed weapons in favour of the two-hander. Don't forget, you may wish to carry a shield for this character, although not equipped, for when/if the ranger gets targeted - bastard swords and shields are a good combo. Are you going to do the game on Insane then take the party to HoF? Just a side note, I did that and got bored. When a near-max paladin can walk through all the undead areas and explode everything, it takes away from the challenge. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

02-03-2006, 02:38 PM	#19
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 54 Posts: 4,037	The "extra attack" given to rangers must be an effect applied to the class/character; the game engine implements this in such a manner that it doesn't matter what weapon is being wielded. So, if you create a ranger and have a two-handed weapon you want to use then enjoy. I don't think I've ever used a ranger in IWD. Instead, I just use a multi-class fighter/druid. __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

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02-01-2006, 08:20 PM	#11
Ultra Marine The Magister Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: Australia Age: 52 Posts: 131	I like daggers too, especially the poison ones. I use them hard mage/cleric. Anybody know about non-random staff?

02-02-2006, 08:08 PM	#14
Ultra Marine The Magister Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: Australia Age: 52 Posts: 131	I don't have iwd here to test it out. [img]smile.gif[/img] that's why I'm talking more than playing !!! Rangers do get extra apr with 2hand weapons. Can someone test it out please? I would give 2hand-weapons to at least 2 of my team mates. It would allow him to stand behind summons and poke with a spear for example. Also, you can equipt a rings of free action and a spear then hit someone who is Entangled without being attacked. Grease+Entalgle works best. hmmmm... I'm not sure a double entangle works?

02-02-2006, 10:47 PM	#15
Kyrvias Lord Ao Join Date: May 15, 2005 Posts: 2,092	Nope, though Entangle+Web works well enough.

02-03-2006, 01:53 AM	#17
Ultra Marine The Magister Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: Australia Age: 52 Posts: 131	@Aerich -- Thanks mate. DC f9/mage armed with axes are the best. I just completed the game with one! Just can't stand the wait. So a elf ranger with bows/gsword/staff will be worth it don't you think? 1)+1 with bows, +1 with dex 2)Extra apr with 2handweapons 3)Great Sword is non-random 4)Staff adds to blunt damage and there is a +3 non random staff on top of the elf tower (i think). 5)More entangle spells later on, more so in HoF.

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