Most powerful party/proficiencies?

[NobleNick]

Originally posted by Magness: Also, a returning throwing axe is great for that stereotypical axe-wielding dwarven fighter in any party. A very efficient use of those proficiency points... And, IIRC, throwing axes in IWD1 have a rather long range, similar to most bows or crossbows, unlike in IWD2 where nearly all throwing axes have a rather meager range... If you have a melee tank that you want to carry a shield to crank up that AC, then a throwing axe is a wonderful compliment to that shield.

Bingo on the shield and excellent use of PP. I do 5PP in Axe, and that leaves 3 for Mace (for those slashing/piercing resistant mobs) instead of having to waste it on sling/bow.

I have verified that your memory is correct on the range of the returning axe: It appears to be exactly the same as the best bows available in IWD.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[Roboghost]

I'm building a new computer; so, while I wait for some parts to finally hit the stores, I'm rolling a new party this weekend:

Human Paladin
Best Defense
Good Offense [only class allowed to use The Sword]
Some Cleric support spells

Gnome Fighter
Great Defense [only of two races to use The Helm]
Great Offense [Axe -- for a +4 and a throwing axe]
Good natural resistances for a front liner

Human Fighter (15) / Cleric (good)
...Going to 15 for a bit of extra THAC0 and HP...
Your basic Super-Cleric

Elf Druid
1. Druids are powerful in their own right -- they don't really need to dual- class -- especially if you're grooming a dual-class Cleric! I'd rather
get them powered up early with the spells. Those summonses are vital in HoF
mode...for those who dare.
2. Elf's 19 Dex [sling] and 90% charm resistances.

Half-Elf Bard
Pick Pocket, Lore, Back-up Mage, but mostly for that final song of theirs.

Human Thief (17) / Mage
...I like to have one strong Thief, so I'm going to level 17 to get the -4
Cripple Strike [5d6 Sneak Attack too] and some extra THAC0 and HP for the
otherwise weak Mage...
It will take some time to see this character shine, but the other 5 will do
the job until this one can kick-in. She will be dangerous when she does!

I figured that the longer-waiting dual-classers might be a bit painful, but they will give me two Uber-characters for the later areas of the game. Besides, this will make me feel a bit less cheesy in taking advantage the dual-class : )

[Aerich]

Well, I have no qualms about giving a [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] to the pally, fighter, and bard.

I assume that you are planning to go to HoF? That's the only scenario where a dc F/C 15/X and dc T/M 17/X conceivably makes sense to me. However, a single-classed druid will max out partway through HoF.

I have two additional comments to make.

1) Going from single classed to multiclassed generally means a level drop of 1. That is, you can expect a lvl 6 druid to have enough XP to be a lvl 5/5 multiclass. Further, a druid's spells are set up to favour the F/D multiclass - a Flame Blade, Moonblade, or Star Metal Cudgel is a lot more effective if you have more attacks per round than the standard 1, never mind the better Thaco of the multiclass. The additional attacks are also excellent when using a sling. With your party setup (late dc of the F/C), you will have to use a significant number of the druid's spells for healing until your bard hits lvl 11, so the druid won't be as effective of an offensive caster as you might wish.

2. Since your T/M is going to take so much time to be effective anyway, why not take a mc F/M/T? Compared to the dc T/M, it gives better HP, better Thaco, use of warrior's weapons (longbows!) and attacks/round, exceptional strength, thief skills throughout the game, etc. It would also give you a second mage earlier in the game, and you could write all those spells in your book instead of lugging them around waiting for your T/M to dual.

[ister]

While I agree that the F/M/T is probably better than the T[17]-M, I have to question whether it gets more hit points. By my math the T-M gets 3-8 per level, while the F/M/T gets 3-9, and rounding down will hurt the multi-class enough that the T-M will generally have more hit points. And this assumes that the F/M/T takes 18 CON - giving the T-M 2 extra points to spend on something else. Finally the dual class will level more quickly, and so will have many more hit points at any given time.

Does the elven charm resistance actually work?

[Roboghost]

Change of plan plus mention of weapon choice to answer original post [Aerich: Yes; HoF mode, so...modified with your advice and added some of my own]

After a long weekend of rolling:

Paladin 18/95 18 18 10 15 18 "Cherry" [F]
Bow** L. Sword** next: Mace** (Skeletons) then Missile** (shield)

Gnome Fighter 18/00 18 18 11 10 10 "Fudwocket" [M]
Crossbow** Axe** next: Mace** [Skeletons - Neutral for a certain +3 Mace -- I'll build Axe***** after Mace** for throwing Axe (shield) then finish Mace*****]

Half-Elf Fighter/Druid 18/87 18 18 8 18 15 "Khepri" [M]
Missile** L. Sword next: Club** (crushing) then Dagger** (speed)

Human Fighter (15)/Mage 18/20 18 18 18 10 10 "Skrhugoth" '[M]
[Not sure to specialize yet -- probably should]
Note on STR: this guy can wear a nice 18/51 gauntlet later & I was tired of rolling -- he will mostly shoot arrows and cast spells anyhow.
Bow** Dagger**
Build Bow*** 1st then Dagger***** (for a certain +4 dagger -- besides I wanted it to go along with the cool pic with the guy with the dagger)

Human Thief (17)/Cleric 18 18 17 10 18 10 "Guinevere" [F]
Bow* Dagger* next: Club* (crushing)
Ultimately this gal will be using the club* exclusively down the DC path [you can get a +5 club & 18/00 gauntlet in HoW -- yummy!]

Half-Elf Bard 14 18 17 18 11 16 "Wheeze" [F]
Crossbow* Short Sword* [don't really care, but I think I'll go missile to get the bard equipped with a buckler shield instead -- this gal is all about singing and spells]


Bard note: 14 STR should be enough (again: tired of rolling) and 16 CHA to give a 21 CHA and (later) a 22 CHA for purchases. Finally: your bard could use a 13 WIS later, so...3 random potions you'll need to get it -- dropping your CON by one. That is why I have a 17 for my CON...for all who wonder.

Okay; I'll be hurting in cleric department for a while, but I need the thief in the beginning and she will shine later for me. I can start cleric sooner with a 17th level thief then a 15th level fighter DC'ing! I simply want to take my DC higher than the usual people do on this board and keep the character from getting too boring along the way. What the heck.

Final note: I think Elven Charm was broke in BG, but should work in IWD?

[Roboghost]

Sitting here at lunch, looking at the numbers...

I may give the Bard more time rolling!

I gave my Thief/Cleric 17 CON in case I wanted to bump the WIS to 20 (losing that one CON point without consequences) with the three (3) potion plan. Getting a priest to 20 WIS gives 1st x 1 / 2nd x 1 / 4th x 2 [this last one is the true boon for 20 WIS considering the importance of 4th level cleric spells.]

I'll try to get the Bard:
14 18 16 18 13 16 [95]

I figured that, if I had the patience to get my Paladin a roll of 97, then the Bard can tough it out for a 95.

[Kyrvias]

a 95 is pretty good for a bard, but with all of the bards restrictions, I think you could go higher

[krunchyfrogg]

You want a 15 strength with a bard so you can use longbows.

I always shoot for 15/18/16/18/10/15

[Aerich]

Wow, lots of posts since friday.

@ ister - I didn't actually do the math, so you may well be right. Note that a F/M/T should take 17 Con instead of 18 because the extra point is a waste with the rounding down, so the T/M has a net gain of 1 stat point to go elsewhere. Anyway, the HP argument is probably irrelevant - any combination of thief and mage won't have many HP, and arguing about it is like two dwarves arguing about how tall they are. The advantage to a F/M/T is better Thaco and more attacks/round - best used from a distance, of course.

I believe the elven charm resistance does work, but few NPCs cast charm spells. It's a minor perk, at best.

@ Roboghost

Paladin - good. As a matter of preference, I like to take flail instead of mace for the hammer flail (+2, 15% chance to stun) and later the shocking flail (+4, additional electrical damage, 20% chance to stun), but mace is a solid choice.

Fighter - awesome. I got a natural 18/00 roll once (on a gnome fighter also), and chopped the enemy into little bits. Did about 50% of the party's kills. You could choose to take 1 PP in crossbow to start, allowing you to get to 5 PP in axe sooner. I'm fairly sure that you don't get extra attacks for specialization in crossbow, so there's really no need to specialize early unless you are doing HoF from the start and need all the early ranged advantages you can scrounge.

Fighter/Druid - excellent. No beefs. If you don't manage to get Dazer (magical club from the Vale) or any of the other random clubs, there's a 4th level druid spell that gives you a great club; extra damage to unnatural creatures (undead, constructs, extra-planar), which is what you want. There's apparently a decent number of random clubs in this game, but I rarely seem to get them.

Fighter/Mage - good. Long wait, but worth it. IMO the best combo for a dual class.

Thief/Cleric - a good combo for "necessary" abilities. On weapons, see my general comments below.

Bard - fine. A 15 in Str allows use of composite longbows, but who cares? My latest bard is lvl 13 and has shot a total of one arrow. Song selection has been Tymora's Melody and WCotS.

General Notes on Weapons

I see lots of maces and clubs, but no other blunt weapons. There are tons of great hammers and some decent flails, so you could spread the proficiencies around your party better unless you are anticipating selling even the best flails and hammers for extra cash.

In terms of overall weapon usage, I'd recommend giving the Gauntlets of Ogre Power (and other Str increasing items such as the 19 Str Girdle of Stromnos in Lower Dorns) and the +5 club to characters other than the T/C. Note: the G of S and the Gauntlets of Elven Might can only be used by warrior classes anyway, although I believe the Gauntlets of Ogre Power can be used by clerics (but not thieves, so I don't know exactly how that will work with a dc character - should be ok). The T/C is a support character, not a melee artist - you only get one attack per round, no matter your level. Those goodies can be better used by the F/D. Take a hammer or mace instead, as you can get ones that add clerical spells. You can use the extra spells for attacking spells if you want your cleric to be a little more offensive. Also note that you will lose the capability to use dagger; once you dual to cleric you can never regain the use of a non-blunt weapon.

Your pure fighter could also use a hammer to good effect. Although hammers do slightly less damage than other blunt weapons, IMO they make up for it because most good hammers have a weapon speed of 1. With a natural 18/00 Str and the quickest weapon available, you can finish a lot of monsters. The hammer is better for offence, the Giving Star mace is better for defence if you don't factor in the reduced number of hits you will take by killing your enemies a fraction sooner.

[ 11-15-2005, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[krunchyfrogg]

Originally posted by Aerich: Fighter - awesome. I got a natural 18/00 roll once (on a gnome fighter also), and chopped the enemy into little bits. Did about 50% of the party's kills. You could choose to take 1 PP in crossbow to start, allowing you to get to 5 PP in axe sooner. I'm fairly sure that you don't get extra attacks for specialization in crossbow, so there's really no need to specialize early unless you are doing HoF from the start and need all the early ranged advantages you can scrounge.

You can only start with ** in any weapon, so you may as well put them into a missile weapon.