Press ignores report linking Al Queda and Iraq

[Timber Loftis]

No, Davros, no salga. Siente te aqui, cabron, y visita con nosotros. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Pikachu_PM]

If this turns out to be true...and it looks like it is...I will be reconsidering my stance on the war in Iraq. I will also be giving Bush a thumbs up...with a bit of a grimace perhaps, but a thumbs up nonetheless.

I would like those of you attacking the media to consider one thing though...If this information is true...and the President and his advisor wanted this information out...I see no reason for them to leak it. Why not make it public?

The only answer I can think of is that A) the memo isn't real or B)The memo is real, was *really* leaked, and the presidential team told them to put a lid on it. The reason for doing so would probably be to keep whatever intelligence source(s) they have under wraps. Think Enigma during WWII.

[Davros]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: No, Davros, no salga. Siente te aqui, cabron, y visita con nosotros. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

LOL - cabron - subtitle in spanish - how quaint TL [img]tongue.gif[/img] - not up to your usual style though old boy - a bit on the nose even.

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Davros: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: No, Davros, no salga. Siente te aqui, cabron, y visita con nosotros. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

LOL - cabron - subtitle in spanish - how quaint TL [img]tongue.gif[/img] - not up to your usual style though old boy - a bit on the nose even. [/QUOTE]
Translated: No, Davros, Don't leave. Sit here, dude, and visit with us.

It was in response to your Hasta luego amigo. No ill intent was expressed, and "cabron" is an acceptable term applied to friends or friendly aquaintences.

[Davros]

Well I am happy to hear that Larry - I found 6 obscene meanings before I found a 7th that said friend [img]smile.gif[/img] . I also found a shitload of totally disgusting websites that are all crosslinked (went into a seeming innoccuous site and then had 6 linked sites open up simultaneously - oh goodie, more spam email, and maybe in Spanish now).

Judging by google it has a lot to do with the latino country that you are saying it in. In Portugal it says to prepare for a lengthy fistfight if you want to say cabron - you might want to exercise some caution there TL if you travel to Lisbon someday. [img]smile.gif[/img] .

[Ar-Cunin]

In Today's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/13/in...pe/13INQU.html

Iraqi Agent Denies He Met 9/11 Hijacker in Prague Before Attacks on the U.S.
By JAMES RISEN

Published: December 13, 2003


WASHINGTON, Dec. 12 — A former Iraqi intelligence officer who was said to have met with the suspected leader of the Sept. 11 attacks has told American interrogators the meeting never happened, according to United States officials familiar with classified intelligence reports on the matter.

Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani, the former intelligence officer, was taken into custody by the United States in July. Under questioning he has said that he did not meet with Mohamed Atta in Prague, according to the officials, who have reviewed classified debriefing reports based on the interrogations.

American officials caution that Mr. Ani may have been lying to American interrogators, but the only other person reported to have attended the meeting was Mr. Atta, who died in the crash of his hijacked plane into the World Trade Center.

Reports that an Iraqi spy had met with Mr. Atta in Prague first circulated soon after the attacks on New York and the Pentagon, but they have been in dispute ever since.

Czech government officials initially confirmed the reports, even as the Central Intelligence Agency and the Federal Bureau of Investigation said they could not corroborate them. Conservatives both inside and out of the Bush administration, arguing for war with Iraq, pointed to the reports as evidence of a link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda, the terrorist organization that planned the Sept. 11 attacks.

During the period between the Sept. 11 attacks and the war, the reports of the Prague meeting came under intense scrutiny from the C.I.A., the F.B.I., the Pentagon and the White House.

Possible contacts between Mr. Atta and Mr. Ani seemed to offer the clearest potential connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda at a time when the Bush administration was arguing that invading Iraq was part of its campaign against terrorism.

But the C.I.A. and F.B.I. eventually concluded that the meeting probably did not take place, and that there was no hard evidence that Mr. Hussein's government was involved in the Sept. 11 plot.

That put the intelligence agencies at odds with hard-liners at the Pentagon and the White House, who came to believe that C.I.A. analysts had ignored evidence that proved links between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Eventually, the Prague meeting became a central element in a battle between the C.I.A. and the administration's hawks over prewar intelligence.

Since American forces toppled the Hussein government and the United States gained access to captured Iraqi officials and Iraqi files, the C.I.A. has not yet uncovered evidence that has altered its prewar assessment concerning the connections between Mr. Hussein and Osama bin Laden, the leader of Al Qaeda, officials said.

American intelligence officials say they believe there were contacts between Iraq and Al Qaeda in the 1990's, but there is no proof that they ever conducted joint operations.

Senior operatives of Al Qaeda who have been captured by the United States since Sept. 11 have also denied any alliance between the organization and Mr. Hussein.

Abu Zubaydah, one of the highest-ranking Qaeda leaders in American custody, told the C.I.A. that Mr. bin Laden rejected the idea of working with Mr. Hussein, a secular leader whom Mr. bin Laden considered corrupt and irredeemable, according to a September 2002 classified intelligence report obtained by The New York Times.

Mr. Zubaydah said that some Qaeda operatives wanted the organization to try to take advantage of Mr. Hussein's hatred for the United States in order to obtain military material or other support from Iraq. But Mr. bin Laden and his top deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, were strongly opposed to working with Iraq, according to the report of Mr. Zubaydah's debriefing, which was obtained from Bush administration officials.

Al Qaeda's leadership "viewed the Iraqis, particularly the military and security services, as corrupt, irreligious and hypocritical in that they succumb to Western vices while concurrently remaining at war with the United States," the report says, summarizing Mr. Zubaydah's statements. "The Iraqis were not viewed as true jihadists, and there was doubt amongst the senior Al Qaeda leadership on the depth of Saddam's commitment to destroy Israel and further the cause of cleansing the Holy Land of infidel influences or presence."

The debriefing report contains significant caveats, warning that Mr. Zubaydah, who was captured in March 2002, might be seeking to mislead the United States.

Separately, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Al Qaeda's chief of operations until his capture on March 1, 2003, in Pakistan, has also told interrogators that Al Qaeda never agreed to work with Mr. Hussein, officials said.

But even as the C.I.A. has played down the connection, the report of a Prague meeting has continued to resonate among administration conservatives. As recently as September, two months after Mr. Ani was captured, Vice President Dick Cheney referred to the Prague meeting during an appearance on the NBC News program "Meet the Press."

Asked about links between Iraq and Al Qaeda, Mr. Cheney replied: "With respect to 9/11, of course, we've had the story that's been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohamed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack, but we've never been able to develop any more of that yet either in terms of confirming it or discrediting it. We just don't know."

The story first emerged in October 2001, when the Czech interior minister said publicly that there was evidence that Mr. Atta had met with Mr. Ani in April 2001. At the time, Mr. Ani was serving as an Iraqi intelligence officer under diplomatic cover at the Iraqi Embassy in Prague.

Later, many Czech government officials became much more skeptical that the meeting ever took place, particularly after it became clear that the initial intelligence report from the Czech domestic intelligence agency concerning the meeting had come from a single informant in the local Arab community.

The information was treated skeptically by Czech intelligence experts because it had been provided only after the Sept. 11 attacks, after Mr. Atta's picture had been broadcast on television and published in newspapers around the world, and after the Czech press reported that records showed that Mr. Atta had once traveled to Prague.

Czech officials have said that border police records showed that Mr. Atta, who was then living in Hamburg, Germany, did come to Prague in June 2000, after obtaining a visa in late May. Shortly after arriving in Prague on that occasion, Mr. Atta flew to Newark.

American records now indicate that Mr. Atta was in Virginia Beach, Va., in early April 2001, when he was supposedly in Prague to meet Mr. Ani.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: quote: Originally posted by Davros: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: No, Davros, no salga. Siente te aqui, cabron, y visita con nosotros. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

LOL - cabron - subtitle in spanish - how quaint TL [img]tongue.gif[/img] - not up to your usual style though old boy - a bit on the nose even. [/QUOTE]
Translated: No, Davros, Don't leave. Sit here, dude, and visit with us.

It was in response to your Hasta luego amigo. No ill intent was expressed, and "cabron" is an acceptable term applied to friends or friendly aquaintences. [/QUOTE]Actually, I was using "cabron" as a joking endearment that is used in Spanish-speaking households. A parent may jokingly call the kid "cabron," meaning something akin to "little shit," when talking to them. For instance, my wife's mother would/will sometimes say "Flaka cabrona, ven aqui" ("Hey, skinny little shit, come here"). It was completely a joke, and I was pretty sure Davros would take it in the right way. It was not intended to be "on the nose." The important part was the "sit here and visit with us." No offense intended to Davros, and for any offense conveyed, perdoname por favor, este era una broma, y solomente una broma.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

After reading the various posts stating that the captured members of Al-Queada deny any link to Saddam Hussein and giving it some objective thought, I have to say "What else would these guys say?" If Saddam was helping to finance their cause and to supply them with weapons, they certainly aren't going to "give up" this vital source of supplies and money. The Al-Queada are willing to die for their cause, so they also aren't going to be concerned with being jailed for their cause.

As for the claims that A.Q. refuse to deal with Saddam because of his material wealth (which goes against their religious beliefs), I would just remind the critics that Osama Bin Laden is a millionaire many times over...and that this wealth was accumulated through his ties to "Western society" and a heavy investment in the stock market. So the allegations that they would not deal with Hussein on religious grounds strikes a very hollow chord. In fact, it makes a lot of sense, because Osama's resources were either frozen or seized by the U.S. immediately after 9/11. Which means they needed to find another source of financing for their jihad. And Saddam Hussein's hatred of the U.S. - along with practically unlimited personal wealth - would make him a very likely source for them to seek out.

[ 12-15-2003, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

It is also important to note that religious radicals of any stripe are always the loudest when it comes to spouting religious rhetoric, yet they are also the first to ignore their own religious edicts...resorting to unrestrained violence and terrorism in the delusional belief that "the ends justify the means".

In pursuit of their terrorist activities, they rarely have any qualms about the religious morals of those that can supply them with their weapons of violence and destruction.

This is true whether it is an Al-Queada member crashing a jet airliner into the World Trade Center or a Christian fanatic bombing an abortion clinic or shooting the doctor that performs the procedures. To the best of my knowledge, there is NO religion that expressly endorses and promotes violence against others as a means to support the values it teaches. So ANY religious terrorist has automatically ignored the teachings of their theology when they resort to terroristic violence.

The point is - for the Al-Queada to now turn around and say they wouldn't deal with Saddam Hussein because of his lack of religious morals rings extremely hollow to my ears.

at the risk of dancing along the line of religious discussion, i think it's that very hypocrisy and hair-splitting which makes it not only possible for AQ to make those seemingly nonsensical distinctions, but in fact likely.

remember, we cannot evaluate them in terms of sensible western thinking. think of psychotic profilers who hunt serial killers.