09-30-2011, 04:55 PM | #21 | |
Jack Burton
Join Date: May 31, 2002
Location: Ireland
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Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial
Quote:
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09-30-2011, 07:13 PM | #22 |
The Dreadnoks
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Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial
Send him to the facility that housed Martha Stewart.
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09-30-2011, 10:56 PM | #23 |
Jack Burton
Join Date: May 31, 2002
Location: Ireland
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Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial
lol, that's terrible.
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10-01-2011, 08:41 AM | #24 |
Xanathar Thieves Guild
Join Date: March 17, 2001
Location: Wichita, KS USA
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Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial
While the potential for that is indeed there, she hadn't done it yet. There is a big difference between locking somebody away for something they have done, and locking them away for something they might do. In other words, in answer to your earlier question to somebody else, yes, if it were my family member I'd want them locked away to prevent another episode. I am not capable of monitoring somebody else 24/7, they would need to be someplace where they could be monitored.
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10-01-2011, 11:28 PM | #25 |
Jack Burton
Join Date: May 31, 2002
Location: Ireland
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Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial
Indeed. But is there such a big difference when the issue boils down to schizophrenics on medication vs. off medication? This is my point, is all.
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10-02-2011, 09:21 AM | #26 |
Xanathar Thieves Guild
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Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial
Only in so far as what they do when they are off. Not every schizophrenic that goes off their meds goes on a killing spree. Once they do, however, being off the meds isn't an excuse, or a free pass. They made a decision to get off their meds while they were coherent, the killing spree is a direct result of that decision, therefore they are responsible for the outcome.
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10-02-2011, 10:37 AM | #27 | |
Jack Burton
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Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial
Quote:
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10-02-2011, 12:03 PM | #28 |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
Join Date: November 15, 2001
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Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial
He was advised to seek psychiatric help as a condition of continued enrollment in school and refused. So it's not like he wasn't totally unaware of a potential problem.
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10-02-2011, 12:20 PM | #29 |
Jack Burton
Join Date: May 31, 2002
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Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial
Yeah but again, this is a mental disorder. By nature it has defenses to protect itself. Like I said in response to the same fact earlier, it would be different if it was a contusion on his arm that began to look serious. If he sought no help and then it morphed into cancer he would only have himself to blame. But schizophrenia is an illness based on delusions.
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10-02-2011, 12:38 PM | #30 | |
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Iron Throne Cult
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Re: Judge: Loughner can be made mentally fit for trial
Quote:
Schizophrenics are similar, except they have to take their medicine (rather than abstaining from something) to maintain their control. Unfortunately, many of them have a tendency to stop taking their meds once they fell "normal" again. So it requires outside supervision to ensure they stay on their meds all the time. As for the "gamebreaker", I can only agree with half of it. Loughner had never been on meds before but I don't agree that he did not know he needed to be on meds. He had been told more than once he should seek psychiatric help and he chose not to. That is not lack of knowledge, that is denial. I understand Loughner didn't think he needed help, but that doesn't change the fact he had been told he should seek it. So wasn't completely unaware of his condition. Of course, the college couldn't make him seek psychiatric help, they could only say they wouldn't allow him back until he did so. Even so, that's a pretty strong message that others feel you should seek help. Unfortunately, Loughner's parents could not force him to seek help either, since he was an adult and could make his own decisions about his health care. So I disagree that Loughner "slipped" through the cracks. Rather, he made the choice to slide (or jump) between the cracks on his own. Also, comparing his condition to other schizophrenics is not completely accurate either. As you know, cases differ from one individual to another. Only the more serious cases experience the auditory hallucinations (voices in their head) that lead to commit violent acts against themselves or others. Also, several schizophrenics exhibit negative symptoms (lack of regular activity) rather than positive symptoms (addition of new activities). Those that exhibit negative symptoms rarely present a danger to anyone else because they just withdraw into themselves. Others exhibit various positive symptoms that add to their behavior. In Loughner's case, these included the auditory hallucinations, feelings of paranoia and conspiracy, etc. While these led to his actions on the day of the shooting, not all schizophrenics experience these symptoms or reach that level that leads them to act against themselves or others. So, while RTB's ex might have the potential to reach that level, the fact that she has NOT exhibited symptoms to that degree makes her a safer risk to be free in society. Since Loughner has exhibited the worst case scenario regarding his symptoms and the actions they can lead to, there is simply no way he can be allowed to roam free in society without an absolute assurance he will stay on his medication and never repeat those actions. And, with the propensity of people like Loughner to discontinue their meds, the only way to give that absolute assurance is through forced monitoring, such as in a mental institute or prison. Left to his own recognizance, there is just no way the defense lawyers or his doctors can prove Loughner would not dc his meds and eventually go on another killing spree.
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