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Old 09-13-2001, 08:42 AM   #51
skywalker
Banned User
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: VT, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 3,097
Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz:
Thank you Mouse *hugs*
I was wondering how long it would be until somebody tried to ban me for my sometimes ...unpopular points of view, as I have gotten into heated arguments a lot lately. Glad to know that I'm not alone in the world.
Thank you again *more hugs*
And if I ever go into politics, I'll be certain to inform you all!
Kaz, I've always supported you and if there is ever a hint that you would be banned, I'd stand with you and leave when you did!

You have a great future ahead of you, I can see that in your posts!

Mark

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Old 09-13-2001, 08:48 AM   #52
Kaz
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: August 16, 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,891
Quote:
Originally posted by skywalker:
Kaz, I've always supported you and if there is ever a hint that you would be banned, I'd stand with you and leave when you did!

You have a great future ahead of you, I can see that in your posts!

Mark
Thank you skywalker. To be honest I didn't mean that seriously since I've always been careful to be considerate and keep my temper in order not to hurt other people's feelings. I can't imagine what I'd be banned for. But thanks!

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Kazara

Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe
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Old 09-13-2001, 08:52 AM   #53
AzureWolf
20th Level Warrior
 

Join Date: May 3, 2001
Location: .
Age: 40
Posts: 2,762
Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

You know the only reason these places have any wealth at all is because US industries and rich oold white men helpped them set up and use the technology to produce the oil they didn't even know they had.


And that talk is exactly what alot of people from other countries take as americans being arrongant.


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"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."
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Old 09-13-2001, 09:18 AM   #54
Zateel
Zhentarim Guard
 

Join Date: March 11, 2001
Location: Long Beach, MS
Posts: 354
Are people over-reacting? Hmmmm.....

Who knows? I'll tell you how I'm reacting. I used to come home from work, relax, and goof off on the computer in peace. Now this has happened. I came home from work (after being delayed and locked down due to a bomb threat) and I worry. I worry that other groups will be encouraged to step forth and have a go at us. I worry that we will be pulled into a war and my wife will be called into active duty and leave our son and me wondering about her welfare every night. I worry that all my savings I've put aside for retiremnet will disappear overnight in a recession.
.
As far as I've seen on CNN, no *EVIDENCE* has been shown that hijackers were middle-eastern. The flight recorder has not yet been recovered, and no one I know of has reported that any of the cell phone calls made during the hijackings identified the group as Arabian, although this may have been withheld for sensitivity/ intelligence reasons at this time.
.
Many people died. Right now, with Bin Laden disclaiming responsibility, we don't even know *why*. These people, whether in the Pentagon or in the towers, were not at war. But now I, sitting here where I used to come to ponder how to deal with Kangaxx or Firkrag, face the prospect of being at war with an enemy whose identity I don't even know, or perhaps initiating a war against a dangerous and innocent nation. If this makes makes me self-centered because I don't live in a country where war is part of every-day life, and it is out of place in mine, then so be it. I don't want to be at war. I was not asked if I would like to be in a war, or if I would like to sacrifice my family, friends, and all that I have to go to war.
.
I don't think killing people is noble or good. As a realist, I understand that if attacked, one must defend lest be conquered. So when one doesn't know whom to defend against, how can it be done? When the very seat of government and economics in the country are threatened or destroyed, how am I supposed to respond?
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Old 09-13-2001, 09:19 AM   #55
Diogenes Of Pumpkintown
Banned User
 

Join Date: August 9, 2001
Location: ...
Posts: 694
Quote:
Originally posted by AzureWolf:
And that talk is exactly what alot of people from other countries take as americans being arrongant.


Right. It is also an example of the way Americans twist history to try to pretend that everything America does is out of noble motives.

I should hardly have to point out that those "rich old white men" were acting not for the benefit of the Arabs, but to line their own pockets.

The twisting of history to portray one's own country in the best possible light is hardly unique to America, of course.

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Old 09-13-2001, 09:22 AM   #56
MagiK
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
Right. It is also an example of the way Americans twist history to try to pretend that everything America does is out of noble motives.

I should hardly have to point out that those "rich old white men" were acting not for the benefit of the Arabs, but to line their own pockets.

The twisting of history to portray one's own country in the best possible light is hardly unique to America, of course.

Who made you the expert on what the "real" motives of the USA are/wer or will be? Where do you get your grand knowledge of all things right? And I see you totally ignore the issues brought up by the post from Canada. You are actually strating to sound suspiciously troll like.

Of course when me and all 550 of my shipmates ran to help the Puerto Ricans put out huge fires in their cane fields that threatened a few thousand impoverished people who had nothing worth trading to the USA, we volunteered because we expected to get something out of it...ohhh yeah...our motives are so so self centered.

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 09-13-2001).]
 
Old 09-13-2001, 09:28 AM   #57
Moni
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
No MajiK,
Some people just can't admit that they might be wrong about grouping the whole nation into that stereotype.
You and I know that these rich greedy whites exist but to say that the whole country operates by their standards is a severe miscalculation of the Americans view at the rest of the world on a whole and it is precisly why America haters exist on a world-wide level.

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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!



[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 09-13-2001).]
 
Old 09-13-2001, 09:29 AM   #58
skywalker
Banned User
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: VT, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 3,097
Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
Who made you the expert on what the "real" motives of the USA are/wer or will be? Where do you get your grand knowledge of all things right? And I see you totally ignore the issues brought up by the post from Canada. You are actually strating to sound suspiciously troll like.

Of course when me and all 550 of my shipmates ran to help the Puerto Ricans put out huge fires in their cane fields that threatened a few thousand impoverished people who had nothing worth trading to the USA, we volunteered because we expected to get something out of it...ohhh yeah...our motives are so so self centered.

People who live in glass houses......


Mark

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Old 09-13-2001, 09:42 AM   #59
Diogenes Of Pumpkintown
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Join Date: August 9, 2001
Location: ...
Posts: 694
Quote:
Originally posted by Liliara:
Oh yes, I can see where what you are saying is true! After all, Americans have only died for American people. We have never died for anyone but our own countrymen. WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

While our troops were in foreign countries, dreaming of homeland and their families, the families left behind in America had to understand that our own freedom wasn't all that mattered! Do me a favor 'Dio' do your homework before you put down the Americans as being self centered! When was the last time you left YOUR family to go to another country to fight for their freedom? Just a question!

And Cloudy, please don't lump all Americans in your comments of us being more interested in sports than in world news. It IS there. If you are individually not interested, that's your choice.

Liliara and others, it would be nice if you would address what I am actually saying instead of putting words into my mouth.

Where in this thread did I say that ALL Americans were TOTALLY selfish? Where in this thread did I say the American government AWAYS acted out of the most selfish possible motives?

Where in this thread did I say that Americans did not value the lives or interests of others at all?

Where in this thread did I say that Americans never sacrificed for others?

Where in this thread did I say that America was an evil country and Americans an evil people?

Those seem to be the ideas which you are attacking -- ideas which I do not hold and did not say.

To say that, historically, the American government has acted with self interest in mind is simply to state a historical truth. The same holds true for virtually any governement of any country at any time in the history of the world.

Liliara, I have done quite a lot of "homework" on this subject over the years -- a good deal more than you, I will wager. I will be happy to debate the subject further with you and Moni and Khan and Magick and anybody else when I have more time, including addressing the specific examples that Moni gave, and any other examples you can think of in the mean time. By all means, post away significant historical examples where you think the US was not acting in self interest, but rather the interest of another country or people against its own interests. I challenge you to name just ONE real example, other than Kosovo which I already named myself.

In answer to your "question", the one time I have been out of the US was for a vacation, not to fight anybody. I am not sure what you are implying by that or what the point was. Now, if you will excuse me, I have work to attend to for now -- namely my job as a prosecuting attorney in which I fight on a daily basis to make your life a bit safer.
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Old 09-13-2001, 09:43 AM   #60
Silver Cheetah
Fzoul Chembryl
 

Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,781
Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
was goona say something but decided against it.

For decades we have been trying to promote peace in the middle east and help keep people from being oppressed. All we get back are terrorist attacks and people celebrating in the streets giving out candy, rejoicing that people in the USA were slaughtered too.

Goodness, how sweet. Someone who still believes in fairy stories.

Can I just point out that it was the US who originally financed extremest groups, including Bin Ladens', to use them against the Soviets in Afghanisan. Can I also point out that along with a load of other western nations, including the UK, you've been selling arms to the middle east for decades. Doesn't sound much like promoting peace to me.

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