The murder of a murderer....

[Azred]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: So we should just accept that there is rampant racism in desciding who pays with their life, and who pays with their time?

[img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] Merciful heavens, no. I would never condone that. We do, however, have to accept the fact that racism does still exist and work hard through tolerance and education to see that it goes away as quickly as possible. However, let's leave that topic for another thread, yes? [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Dramnek Ulk: Exactly, That is why we should focus less on the punishment aspect, rather we should focus more on the causes (i.e. rich poor gap, Poverty, Injustice etc) of crime, and helping to rehabilitate the offenders, as oppose to punishing them. For example you have someone who sniffs a little coke, don’t punish him or her, ask why he or she did it, and help him or her not to do it again.

I'm all for rehabilitating those who may be saved, so to speak; however, if someone does willingly break the law then consequences must follow. If we could more clearly define the causes of crime--and, indeed, we do know many of them, as you so clearly state--then "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". It would be much less costly to prevent a crime through counseling, etc. than to crunch someone through the legal/penal system, where they would get almost no job skills training or education.
The system may not be perfect, but it is the best we have for now.

Originally posted by Azred: The system may not be perfect, but it is the best we have for now.[/QB]

We should act to improve the systems of justice, and enact the right political systems and policies to reduce the causes of crime.

Of course how you do that is a moot point?
Socialism? Capitalism? A mix?
Rehabilitation? Harsher punishment?
*shrugs*
Who knows.

[Attalus]

(Sigh) the fact that punishment is not a deterrent is no reason not to do it. It is to remove harmful individuals from society. And, Talthyr, if my relative was executed in a foreign country for comitting a trivial crime, certainly I would be upset, but going to other counties exposes one to hazards one might not face at home. But it would still not be murder becasue it was legal under the laws of that state.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: quote: Originally posted by Azred: The system may not be perfect, but it is the best we have for now.

We should act to improve the systems of justice, and enact the right political systems and policies to reduce the causes of crime.

Of course how you do that is a moot point?
Socialism? Capitalism? A mix?
Rehabilitation? Harsher punishment?
*shrugs*
Who knows.[/QUOTE]A moot point? If someone--you, me, anyone--were to come up with a system that could help deter crime and rehabilitate those who commit crimes then that would be the most socially significant step forward since the invention of cities.
I think most people here would agree that harsher punishment is not a solution; the facts show that harsh punishment neither prevents crime nor rehabilitates criminals.
Since crime exists in all countries, regardless of the political system, clearly no political system yet developed can deter crime.
Religion? Crimes are committed by practitioners of all religions, so no religious faith can deter crime.
The question to answer, then, is "why do criminals commit crime"? Unfortunately, that is a question for another thread. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

***************

I keep seeing statements posted by others where they point out how dangerous it is for our justice/penal system to punish or execute an innocent person. I agree; miscarriages of justice are regrettable. However, what about the cases where the justice system fails to convict someone who is guilty? Walker Rayleigh [sp], the former minister, gets to go about his daily business while his wife remains in a coma because "someone" didn't finish what they started. I won't even begin on the OJ debacle....

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

The Northeast, which accounts for roughly 1% of executions, has the lowest murder rate.

This is a little off topic , but I dont know where you got that statistic from ,but they must have forgotten that NYC is in the northeast. If you look at local news the police are turning up 3 or 4 bodies a week. The yearly crime statistics for last year put us in the top 5 for # of murders commited a year. D.C. and Los Angeles beat us.

Back on topic !! I think that we should let the family of John Luttig decide his murderers fate. If his wife and family think that the murderer should be set free than SO BE IT !! I think if we had that kind of system in place a lot of criminals might think twice. What if the victims of a crime got to pick the punishment?? We let the legal system do its thing right up to the penalty phase. IF someone is foud guilty then let the victim decide the punishment weather the decision is haveing the offender boiled alive or set free from jail and forgiven. That seems pretty fair to me.

[ 05-29-2002, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: The Hunter of Jahanna ]

[khazadman]

what,i'm supposed to feel sorry for a murderer who is subjected to a fouled up execution?i'm really not worried about their feelings.i'm more concerned with the feelings of those people who were killed by these criminals.how do you think they felt while being shot,stabbed,strangled,whatever?
the key phrase to remember in all this talk about deterence and rehabilitation is death PENALTY.it is punishment.it is not meant to be a deterent.and rehabilitation is a waste of time.they have commited the worst crime and should recieve the worst punishment.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

That was a well researched list that you provided, Dramnek.

Now - for the sake of full disclosure - would you be kind enough to list the manner in which their victims were killed and what (if any) unpleasant reactions the victims had to this treatment?

[Attalus]

Yes, Cerek, I would be very interested in that list. I really don't care how murderers die, as long as they do.

[Sir Taliesin]

QUOTE]Whoo Hooo !!!!
[img]graemlins/firedevil.gif[/img] I'm a bloodthirtsy Texan !!! Specifically, a bloodthirsty Tex-Mexican! (We're the worst)
[img]graemlins/2gunfire.gif[/img] Actually, I'm kinda proud of that. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Well Rudedawg, I'm exactly like you, except I'm a Bloodthirtsy Tennessean!!! Specifically, a bloodthirtsy Tenn-Italian!

Sorry Alexander, He got what he deserved! And Amnesty International can go hang as far as I'm concerned! Their right there with PETA!

[ 05-29-2002, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Sir Taliesin ]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

ugh!! Dont even get me started on the PeTA nazis. I used to work in a restaurant up the block from thier national head quarters and we had problems with them harrasing our patrons all the time.