Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Forums > General Discussion > General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005)

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-18-2001, 02:48 PM   #241
MagiK
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Absynthe:
Secondly I base my comments on humans from 40 years of personal observation and experience. Experience gathered from 25 states in the USA, The Philipine Islands, Several South American Countries that I was never told which one I was in, Various places in europe, and lastly From the middle east again several countries that I was never sure which place I was. So yeah I think Ive seen a fair cross section.

So from this, you want us to believe that your personal observation started at birth? Absolutely fascinating
Your good at quibling but I don't see you adding any substance here. And yes People do start observing other people at birth dearie, well at least those who arent raised by wolves in the wilderness but those types are few and far between.

Some scientists state that children start learning even while still in the womb.

Althoough to be honest others say you arent a human untill your born too....so what can you do?


------------------
Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 09-18-2001).]
 
Old 09-18-2001, 02:55 PM   #242
Absynthe
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
MagiK, you just take yourself way too seriously, dearie! I'm going to take a little break before I crack a rib laughing....thanks.
 
Old 09-18-2001, 03:00 PM   #243
MagiK
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Absynthe:
MagiK, you just take yourself way too seriously, dearie! I'm going to take a little break before I crack a rib laughing....thanks.
That! comes from 40 years of observing too much of the bad side of humanity and not enough time playing with the good side. As I said, Im jaded, cynical, disillusioned and way too serious for my own good. Yet I still manage to have fun now and then


Hope your rib heals ok

------------------
Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 09-18-2001).]
 
Old 09-18-2001, 03:17 PM   #244
Fljotsdale
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: March 12, 2001
Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England
Age: 87
Posts: 2,859
Hm. Interesting set of posts, MagiK. Interesting to note your age. You seem to have packed a lot of cynicism into your short young life What makes you think the silver feline is younger than you? Or has less cause for cynicism? Or less experience of the world? Or less ability to sift information? Or less knowledge of history?
Actually, I suspect you fall behind her on all counts. And apart from Diogenes I have yet to meet anyone with a greater grasp of reality. Did it never strike you that 'idealism' is nothing but pure common sense? Being nice to your enemies is the only way to stop them being enemies - which is the best way I know to ensure our own safety. (I don't mean fawning all over them, either!I mean giving practical assistance to help 'em into the 21st century. Many are living in pitiful conditions). Sure we won't win 'em all that way. But if we win enough of 'em then those you designate 'evil' will have no fuel to set on fire. The bin Ladens of this world whip up the anger of the 'have-nots', rather than that of the 'haves'.
Not idealism - common sense.
I canot speak with the same authority as Dio and the Silver Cheetah, because although I am older than either I have not studied the middle east as they have. But I DO know what makes sense.
Peace, friend!

------------------


Fljotsdale is offline  
Old 09-18-2001, 03:28 PM   #245
MagiK
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
Hm. Interesting set of posts, MagiK. Interesting to note your age. You seem to have packed a lot of cynicism into your short young life What makes you think the silver feline is younger than you? Or has less cause for cynicism? Or less experience of the world? Or less ability to sift information? Or less knowledge of history?
Actually, I suspect you fall behind her on all counts. And apart from Diogenes I have yet to meet anyone with a greater grasp of reality. Did it never strike you that 'idealism' is nothing but pure common sense? Being nice to your enemies is the only way to stop them being enemies - which is the best way I know to ensure our own safety. (I don't mean fawning all over them, either!I mean giving practical assistance to help 'em into the 21st century. Many are living in pitiful conditions). Sure we won't win 'em all that way. But if we win enough of 'em then those you designate 'evil' will have no fuel to set on fire. The bin Ladens of this world whip up the anger of the 'have-nots', rather than that of the 'haves'.
Not idealism - common sense.
I canot speak with the same authority as Dio and the Silver Cheetah, because although I am older than either I have not studied the middle east as they have. But I DO know what makes sense.
Peace, friend!

I make no real assumptions about SC, I state the facts about myslef and what I have seen. Idealism has nothing to do with reality. If you want reality you HAVE to be a realist not an Idealist. They are mutually exclusive. You cannot be both. At least not at the same time. I posted what I did because what she/he said does not match the facts as I have observed them. To back my "observations" I posted my age and where I traveled to obtain these "observations" Now I realize Im not infallible and may even be wrong on occasion, however, If you wish to show where I am wrong, why not post the when where and how of your (or her or his or whoevers) own observations. Too often I discuss these things only to find that the only experiences backing the individuals point of view is what they have learned in a book, with no real experience to back it up. Books are a great learning tool, Ive read far more than I can remember but without real world experience to back it up, books are all theory. Some people have traveled far more than I have and yet still hold a lot of the points that SC makes, but to be very honest, when I meet people who have traveled to some of the less "touristy places" in the world, they don't seem to be so...idealistic.

Do you see what I am sayng Fljotsdale? Im not meaning to say "YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG" to SC what I really want to say is "Your comments do not fit the reality I have observed" and what I would like is some return of "alternative" observations as opposed to "you suck" "the west sucks" "you don't know people" I am not a very concise or precise writier, its one of my failings. I think I do better in face to face talks.


Ick this post came off as way too harsh Fljotsdale, I really was just trying to explain my self to you sorry it sounds so...harsh.

------------------
Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 09-18-2001).]
 
Old 09-18-2001, 04:12 PM   #246
Kaz
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: August 16, 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,891
Now, straight off, I am a young, idealistic, radical, pacifist teenager. So what? Sometimes the world needs idealists.
Maybe there are some people that are born evil - Hitler I won't argue. But many of the others become evil by outside influence - bad childhood, etc. I do not see what you can do with these people. Unfortunately I am not too well informed about the events of the last 50 years, so I can't really help there. But IMHO, not all terrorists are evil. Some are brainwashed, indoctrinated,... they don't belong in jail, they belong in a psychiatry. And also, how do you define a terrorist? It occured to me that many of the freedom fighters during the Revolutionary War may seem like terrorists from another point of view, among others. I agree with everything Silver Cheetah said, btw.
We are human, we aren't perfect. So nothing we create is perfect - no government is perfect, they have their strong and their weak points. You have to face that to make the government better, a "everything is just perfect the way it is" attitude won't get us anywhere. Also, you have to face your history. Pretending that our country is the best, all the things we did in the past were just for the good of the many (I went to American schools, this is the impression I got from the history lessons) and never for our own pocket, that we never screwed up, is wrong. You HAVE to face the mistakes you made in your history in order not to repeat them. Personally, I think Germany does a good job of this, almost too good, and that our history lessons are rather neutral - but of course all opinions on these matters are subjective. I'm not exactly sure what point I was trying to make with this, I just felt it needed to be said.


------------------


Kazara

Sapphire Dragoness of ALSB
Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe
Kaz is offline  
Old 09-18-2001, 04:15 PM   #247
Fljotsdale
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: March 12, 2001
Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England
Age: 87
Posts: 2,859
No worries, MagiK. Doesn't sound harsh at all! You are just explaining your viewpoint, as I did mine, and as Silver and Dio did!

Experience: Of course I cannot speak for anyone else - though I DO know Silver Cheetah has travelled a fair bit and has not just been to 'tourist' places, either.

I myself have only been out of the UK once, so I do not have that experience to fall back on. All I have is TV footage. Not much to go on, no. There is nothing like seeing things 'in the flesh', I agree.

But, really, you know, I have had SOME experience of the horrors of this world. I lived through World War 2 in an area that suffered serious bombing. Even as a child I saw much that it would have been better not to see. Fear that my parents might not come home was not the least of it. And middle eastern countries have been subjected to much more than the UK was in WW2.

You think that idealism and reality are opposites. But they are not. Realism/idealism is the SAME THING. You are thinking of idealism as being all about starry-eyed 'love', yes?
Idealism isn't like that! Its dead practical. It means looking at needsand then taking steps to provide those needs. The richer looking out for the poorer. That is what Christianity AND Islam both teach and it is sensible, practical and of benefit to us all. (And btw, I'm an atheist!)
What the 'realistic' West has been doing is seeing OUR wants and grabbing them because we are bigger and stronger, and thus we have damned the weaker. We are now reaping the rewards of that 'realistic', unidealistic attitude.
Idealism IS realism at its most practical. 'Realism' as we have practiced it is VERY unrealistic and impractical.
Truce?

------------------


Fljotsdale is offline  
Old 09-18-2001, 04:19 PM   #248
MagiK
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz:
Now, straight off, I am a young, idealistic, radical, pacifist teenager. So what? Sometimes the world needs idealists.
Maybe there are some people that are born evil - Hitler I won't argue. But many of the others become evil by outside influence - bad childhood, etc. I do not see what you can do with these people. Unfortunately I am not too well informed about the events of the last 50 years, so I can't really help there. But IMHO, not all terrorists are evil. Some are brainwashed, indoctrinated,... they don't belong in jail, they belong in a psychiatry. And also, how do you define a terrorist? It occured to me that many of the freedom fighters during the Revolutionary War may seem like terrorists from another point of view, among others. I agree with everything Silver Cheetah said, btw.
We are human, we aren't perfect. So nothing we create is perfect - no government is perfect, they have their strong and their weak points. You have to face that to make the government better, a "everything is just perfect the way it is" attitude won't get us anywhere. Also, you have to face your history. Pretending that our country is the best, all the things we did in the past were just for the good of the many (I went to American schools, this is the impression I got from the history lessons) and never for our own pocket, that we never screwed up, is wrong. You HAVE to face the mistakes you made in your history in order not to repeat them. Personally, I think Germany does a good job of this, almost too good, and that our history lessons are rather neutral - but of course all opinions on these matters are subjective. I'm not exactly sure what point I was trying to make with this, I just felt it needed to be said.



I agree with most of what you said here Kaz I will even go so far as to say not ALL terrorists are evil, Only the ones who kill innocent people who are just going about their daily life, women, children and men who are not involved in their fight except by the mere fact of being alive. As for some people being evil due to their environment, there may be some like that, all Im saying is that there are some people who are evil right from the get go. Take a couple of Abnormal Psych classes when you can, there are some really disturbing kids out there. Cheers


------------------
Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.
 
Old 09-18-2001, 04:22 PM   #249
Fljotsdale
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: March 12, 2001
Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England
Age: 87
Posts: 2,859
Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz:
Now, straight off, I am a young, idealistic, radical, pacifist teenager. So what? Sometimes the world needs idealists.
Maybe there are some people that are born evil - Hitler I won't argue. But many of the others become evil by outside influence - bad childhood, etc. I do not see what you can do with these people. Unfortunately I am not too well informed about the events of the last 50 years, so I can't really help there. But IMHO, not all terrorists are evil. Some are brainwashed, indoctrinated,... they don't belong in jail, they belong in a psychiatry. And also, how do you define a terrorist? It occured to me that many of the freedom fighters during the Revolutionary War may seem like terrorists from another point of view, among others. I agree with everything Silver Cheetah said, btw.
We are human, we aren't perfect. So nothing we create is perfect - no government is perfect, they have their strong and their weak points. You have to face that to make the government better, a "everything is just perfect the way it is" attitude won't get us anywhere. Also, you have to face your history. Pretending that our country is the best, all the things we did in the past were just for the good of the many (I went to American schools, this is the impression I got from the history lessons) and never for our own pocket, that we never screwed up, is wrong. You HAVE to face the mistakes you made in your history in order not to repeat them. Personally, I think Germany does a good job of this, almost too good, and that our history lessons are rather neutral - but of course all opinions on these matters are subjective. I'm not exactly sure what point I was trying to make with this, I just felt it needed to be said.


Good for you, Kaz! A girl after my own heart! And sensible, too.

Oops! EDIT: Put an 's' instead of a 'z' - sorry!
------------------




[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-18-2001).]
Fljotsdale is offline  
Old 09-18-2001, 04:24 PM   #250
MagiK
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
No worries, MagiK. Doesn't sound harsh at all! You are just explaining your viewpoint, as I did mine, and as Silver and Dio did!

Experience: Of course I cannot speak for anyone else - though I DO know Silver Cheetah has travelled a fair bit and has not just been to 'tourist' places, either.

I myself have only been out of the UK once, so I do not have that experience to fall back on. All I have is TV footage. Not much to go on, no. There is nothing like seeing things 'in the flesh', I agree.

But, really, you know, I have had SOME experience of the horrors of this world. I lived through World War 2 in an area that suffered serious bombing. Even as a child I saw much that it would have been better not to see. Fear that my parents might not come home was not the least of it. And middle eastern countries have been subjected to much more than the UK was in WW2.

You think that idealism and reality are opposites. But they are not. Realism/idealism is the SAME THING. You are thinking of idealism as being all about starry-eyed 'love', yes?
Idealism isn't like that! Its dead practical. It means looking at needsand then taking steps to provide those needs. The richer looking out for the poorer. That is what Christianity AND Islam both teach and it is sensible, practical and of benefit to us all. (And btw, I'm an atheist!)
What the 'realistic' West has been doing is seeing OUR wants and grabbing them because we are bigger and stronger, and thus we have damned the weaker. We are now reaping the rewards of that 'realistic', unidealistic attitude.
Idealism IS realism at its most practical. 'Realism' as we have practiced it is VERY unrealistic and impractical.
Truce?

Hmmm Ill have to ponder what you said about idealism and realism, not sure I agree but I can at least think about it I can to a (very) limited extent sympathize with what you had to live through in the 40's I would say, that what sicks with me the most out of the "horrors" Ive been exposed to isn't the visual, I think I learned to be detached from the sights...what still sticks with me and visits me in my dreams some times are the smells. Kind of odd that.

As for Islam and Chritianity...while admittedly fairly ignorant of Islamic law what I do know of both would seem to me that there would be an easy "live and let live" if people actullay follow the core tennants.... Well I have to go get some sleep, been on the go too many hours today. Good night fair lady.



------------------
Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.
 
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Twin Lamps Korvanik Miscellaneous Games (RPG or not) 2 02-02-2004 03:48 PM
Twin Peaks Grojlach Entertainment (Movies, TV Shows and Books/Comics) 3 02-06-2003 07:47 PM
My stats for people in the 2 towers (contains two tower spoilers) Sythe Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn & Throne of Bhaal 2 12-22-2002 10:49 PM
Twin Lamps Thamrys Greybeard Miscellaneous Games (RPG or not) 5 09-23-2002 04:40 AM
Stats on the Twin Towers Avatar General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 14 09-11-2001 03:50 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved