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Old 06-11-2001, 10:12 AM   #31
Memnoch
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Speaking as a Catholic I am against the death penalty, purely because I believe that life is a gift given to us by God and it is not our right to take it. This is irrespective of what he did, and I don't believe that the death penalty deters these types of crimes.

Having said that, I fully support the maximum allowable punishment to have been given to Tim McVeigh for his crimes which he has been found guilty for. He should have been given life in prison in isolation or doing hard labor in a maximum security prison, NEVER to be released.

May God have mercy on his soul.

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Old 06-11-2001, 10:15 AM   #32
Rikard
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If We look at The so calleb "First World" There are 2 countrys who have deathj penalty
thje USA and Canada
Why? coz We Think It's Barbaric
And it is
Does thou bring back a dead by killing his killer?
do you feel better when you have killed someone?
is Death a greater punishment then life in prisonment?
To all these answers i shalth say no
Think about this too
What if somebody is innocent
And this has happen several times
there's no way to reverse death

To be conclusive
I think it's Barbaric
And it should not be allowed
if Murder is being Repaid by murder
Bush should have died 57 times

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Old 06-11-2001, 10:20 AM   #33
Memnoch
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Donut, excellent, well-thought out post. I will henceforth refrain from needling you about Australia's come-from-behind win against England in the cricket, when England compiled a HUGE total in their innings.

Also, just to remind everyone here, there's no right or wrong with this, and no-one has to "win". We are all entitled to have our points of view.

Just want to make sure no-one takes all this personally.

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Old 06-11-2001, 10:29 AM   #34
Donut
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Quote:
Originally posted by Memnoch:
Donut, excellent, well-thought out post. I will henceforth refrain from needling you about Australia's come-from-behind win against England in the cricket, when England compiled a HUGE total in their innings.


You wouldn't let it lie would you?


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Old 06-11-2001, 10:30 AM   #35
antonius
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I'll agree with Memnoch on this one and add a disclaimer for in future. I am often told that I don't care about anything. This is almost true. Anything is fair game for discussion or humour. It's easy to forget that other people have a more personal opinion on things.

I just have one final question? Is it over? (and I don't mean our discussion)
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Old 06-11-2001, 10:36 AM   #36
Memnoch
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Calm, rational discussion about issues, especially controversial ones, is how we all leverage knowledge from each other. As long as we remember everyone's right to have a point of view, and not take the discussions personally, and remember that it's not about winning or losing about about learning, we can all have a spirited, positive debate!

In answer to your question - yes, it's over. He was pronounced dead about a couple of hours ago AFAIK.


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Old 06-11-2001, 10:43 AM   #37
antonius
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Quote:
Originally posted by Memnoch:

In answer to your question - yes, it's over. He was pronounced dead about a couple of hours ago AFAIK.
Not entirely what I meant - I just get a feeling that we've not heard the last of this.
People still talk about the Kennedy assassination nearly 30 years later.



[This message has been edited by antonius (edited 06-11-2001).]
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Old 06-11-2001, 10:44 AM   #38
Cloudbringer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Memnoch:
Speaking as a Catholic I am against the death penalty, purely because I believe that life is a gift given to us by God and it is not our right to take it. This is irrespective of what he did, and I don't believe that the death penalty deters these types of crimes.

Having said that, I fully support the maximum allowable punishment to have been given to Tim McVeigh for his crimes which he has been found guilty for. He should have been given life in prison in isolation or doing hard labor in a maximum security prison, NEVER to be released.

May God have mercy on his soul.

Amen, Maz, amen....
I couldn't have added a thing to your post, you said it all.

Amber

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[This message has been edited by Cloudbringer (edited 06-11-2001).]
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Old 06-11-2001, 10:45 AM   #39
Donut
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rikard:
If We look at The so calleb "First World" There are 2 countrys who have deathj penalty
thje USA and Canada
Why? coz We Think It's Barbaric


Canada abolished capital punishment for ordinary crime in 1974 or 5, and for all crimes in 1998.

The Netherlands abolished the death penalty for ordinary crimes in 1870, had the last execution in 1952 and completely abolished it in 1982.

In 1942 the exiled Dutch government, based in London, changed the law and reintroduced the death penalty for those that had betrayed other people. 156 were convicted and in 1952 , 40 of those were executed.

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Old 06-11-2001, 10:48 AM   #40
Moni
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Well if my own two cents is worth anything I would like to say that when a murderer confesses and the law has undisputed truth that the person is actually the murderer, capitol punishment is befitting of the crime.
I do think they let these people off too easy, putting them to sleep and then killing them. I think their deaths should match their crimes.

Timothy McVeigh confessed with no remorse. He deserved worse than what he got.

He was not a lunatic, he was a radical. I actually met him one night when he lived in Tucson. He was not a lunatic. He was, as many young middle class white men are, mad at a government that takes their hard earned wages and gives it to professional welfare families and prisoners to do with it the things they are denied in society without it.

To keep people like this in prison for the rest of their lives is just a drain on the rest of the country's pocketbook and morale.
We here in America pay taxes so that prisoners can get three square meals a day, college educations, have gyms, cable television and libraries. They live better than good moral people who struggle out among society just to get by.

Personally I have been laughed out of offices granting funding for an education beyond High School for being a middle class white girl...behind minorities, refugees, and prisoners, I am the last in line. Its wrong but I won't go around killing other people for it.

I paid for my own college education, struggling to raise a child and keep a roof over my head at the same time. It wasn't easy.

However, a criminal can, in prison, get an education, a college degree, and change their name before their release in order to start life among society anew. With their reccomendations, they can be (and have been) my bosses.

I think the judicial system should rethink what effects they are having on society as a whole when they put criminals in prison. and give them priveledges that they require us to pay for and then let these people out to have better lives than us.

I like the Maricopa County (AZ) Sheriff's method...canvas tents and bologna sandwiches. People don't want to go back.

'nuff said for now.


Moni

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[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 06-11-2001).]
 
 


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