!!!HELP ME!!! Messed up BIG with the girlfriend's dad...!!!!!!!!!

[The Cavalier]

Originally posted by Bungleau: Congrats, Cavalier. Sounds like things are heading back the right way. And I wouldn't ignore her father on his six months comment. Reading between the lines, it doesn't sound like he's being a hardass about it (just to bring that up again). Rather it sounds like he's looked at things, and if you're still around in six months, odds are going to be better than average that you'll be around much longer. So he's trying (IMHO) to give you suggestions about what can make the future after those six months a whole lot easier for the both of you. IOW, he's saying to get a plan for your future, whatever it is. I've talked with people whose plans for the future involve buying lottery tickets on Saturday nights. They rarely get further than Saturday night. If you make a plan, you may not achieve it, but you will do more than if you hadn't made a plan. Good luck, and I mean it. *B*

Yeah, I'm graduating this year, and I'm sticking around for a year before I go to college. I told my parents that I would have a job and car while I'm living at home for the next year (and they were suprised that I took the initiative on that before they told me to get one), so this "ultimatim" her father has given me is basically a win/win situation.

[Epona]

Originally posted by Lady Aberdene: Epona, I think you are the the exception on your level of maturity at the age of 16. Thank goodness I am more mature now than I was at 16 and at 31 I hope to be more than I am now. I think it is well known how physical boys/men are on this subject and even at 16 a girl wants it to be more than sex. Long time boyfriend and feels the love and all that.

Lady A, I think you're right, but I also think it was due to the way I was brought up - I was responsible and mature *because* I'd been allowed to take responsibility for myself, so I learned how to take care of myself. I also think that girls would think differently on this issue if it weren't for cultural reasons which result in name-calling and derogatory comments if you feel/act any different from the way you're *supposed* to!

Incidentally, many of my female friends in the UK are not so different from me, so I think there is a difference in the way girls are raised here [img]smile.gif[/img] Not everyone of course, but liberal upbringing does seem to be more common here.

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Epona: Lady A, I think you're right, but I also think it was due to the way I was brought up - I was responsible and mature *because* I'd been allowed to take responsibility for myself, so I learned how to take care of myself. I also think that girls would think differently on this issue if it weren't for cultural reasons which result in name-calling and derogatory comments if you feel/act any different from the way you're *supposed* to! Incidentally, many of my female friends in the UK are not so different from me, so I think there is a difference in the way girls are raised here [img]smile.gif[/img] Not everyone of course, but liberal upbringing does seem to be more common here.

I think you're right Epona. It's precisely the same where I live. What you describe is about a thousand times more common than the situation I hear others here describe. In fact I think a father who'd start that "pond scum touching my little girl... grumble... don't want my little princess to ever grow up... let him get a job first" would only get laughed at or pitied.
I was raised in such a way that at 16 or 17 I knew damn well if a guy was only interested in one thing. And I also knew that if was only interested in that myself, I wasn't behaving any worse than that guy.
During my late teens (18-19) I had a few boyfriends (Edit: in succession, I hasten to add [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) - most of them studying and well-educated, but one of them worked with his hands and er... wasn't too bright
It would have been unthinkable for my parents to demand of him "if he was treating their little girl right and how he was going to support her". LOL, I'm sorry but I find that attitude laughable. First, at that age, how the hell do you know it's a serious relationship?? Why the hell bring up how he's going to support me when it's hardly sure I will still be seeing him in a year's time? Second, I would have been offended!! As if I am not planning to support MYSELF! Why would there be any difference between male and female teenagers in that respect? Both should prepare to be able to provide a living for themselves. Third, if the guy's really not what I'm looking for, I'LL KNOW! LOL
The guy I mentioned proves it. I realised soon enough that I wasn't really interested in someone to whom I had to explain every other word of intelligent discourse. But there's nothing wrong with a little fooling around with Mr Right Now or Mr Good Enough before Mr Right comes along, is there? [img]tongue.gif[/img] At least you'll know what NOT to look for in a guy.
Honestly, you Americans should loosen up a little [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 02-20-2003, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

[The Hierophant]

Cavalier - Good to hear that things are looking up bro. To be honest her Dad sounds like an asshole (but her Mum sounds nice, as Mums tend to be [img]smile.gif[/img] ). You're nearly 18, you're getting to that age where you can strike out on your own anyway. The bottom line is: don't live your life as an attempt to please/appease her father!! You have to do what is right for you and your girl. If you are happier being motivated and working , excellent, but don't do it out of fear of rejection from her (apparent) stuffed-shirt of a father. Just be cool bro, and treat her right (although I'm sure you will)!

Epona and Melusine: I agree wholeheartedly, and the 'liberal' upbringing that you two have had is pretty much the staple here in New Zealand as well.

In terms of teenaged responsibility and 'adult-mindedness', well, I guess it's a very subjective quality. To share a personal story (which is a little graphic, you don't have to read it, just telling you now): I lost my virginity when I was 14 (I'm almost 21 now btw), and to tell the truth I had absolutely no loving interest in the girl nor any consideration for the possible consequences of my actions. I was just trying to 'beat my high-school buddies to it' so to speak. Looking back, it was pretty despicable, I blatantly used her and really hurt her feelings and I feel like dogs**t today whenever I think back on it. To make matters worse she was 'late' for a week or so afterward, which needless to say scared us little 14-year-olds s**tless! Everything turned out alright though, but I'll always be an asshole for how I treated her. I was just a kid, and in know way could I have adequately dealt with the consequences of my actions had they been more serious. Incidentally, we didn't 'do it' at anyones house. We met up on top of a hill near where we both lived (we both lived near some farmland and forest on the outskirts of town) and er...things progressed from there. So when it comes to the crunch, parental supervision can never be 100% effective (although it may be a little easier to keep an eye on things in American suburbia, but not much ). Also, we kept the whole thing quiet, despite how scared out of our minds we were about what might happen, so our parents never even found out. Local 'family planning' clinics are quite empathic and compassionate to irresponsible teens, and do whatever they can to help you through things with confidentiality (ie: pregnancy tests, abortions etc). Although if she had have been pregnant, we would have felt obligated to tell our folks.
As an aside, we sort of 'fell out' after that ordeal, I havn't seen her since...

[Epona]

Thank you Melusine, I was starting to wonder if it was just me [img]smile.gif[/img]

I would have given my dad a piece of my mind if he'd ever tried to tell me I couldn't see someone, or asked what any boyfriend's prospects were. Of course he'd never have done that, and it would have got him absolutely nowhere if he'd been that way inclined. I think the whole thing's ridiculous.

I am coming to the conclusion that parenting is VERY different in the US to in Europe! I remember once phoning my mum from a male friend's house when I was 14 to tell her that I was going to London for the day with a group of my male friends to buy records. I did it out of courtesy, to let her know where I was going to be. She just asked me what time I would be home, and would I eat out or should she leave some dinner in the stove for me - oh and to call when I was on the train home so my dad could pick me up from the station (cos there's no late night bus service where my parents live). It certainly didn't occur to me that there might be any argument about it, and there wasn't.

The only input I got from my parents about my social activities and dating were much needed lifts to and from town, until I got my bicycle. Later on when my friends learned to drive and got cars (never bothered learning myself) they didn't need to do that.

My parents never once said to me that they didn't like me hanging out in certain places, or with certain people. And if they had, they'd have got short shrift from me - I just wouldn't have told them where I was going. Which I suspect is what many US teens do, if their parents are that strict.

[Callum Kerr]

Originally posted by Epona: Bungleau, the reason those girls never let on that they had hormones raging, same as the boys, was because a girl is viewed as cheap and nasty if she 'puts out'. I think we need a more enlightened view on this in our modern age. Nobody would get anywhere with me by promising things they weren't going to deliver, or telling me they loved me when they didn't. If a man can want to have sex just for the sake of it, why can't a woman? Alternatively you could all just think I'm a cheap tart LOL, because I don't expect promises of marriage or undying love from anyone - so on that score it would not be possible to 'deceive' me into sleeping with someone - if I wanted to I would, and if I didn't want to I wouldn't, end of. So I'm either enlightened and modern, or a cheap slag, depending on your point of view [img]smile.gif[/img] I really think it's time to rethink our attitudes towards women and sex to be honest.

Believe... I'm searching far and wide for a girl who lets on that her hormones raging [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img] (no that *IS* only a joke...)

And all these comments about talking about safe sex and stuff... I'm pretty sure that nobody I know would ever be comfortable with that... I know I'm not... and if you make 'em siddown and talk about it, they will just be freaked/rebellious... course i could be wrong... I'm only 14 after all and haven't got the experience to know about these things

Edit: I just realised that the last sentence seemed to be hinting something... it wasn't

[ 02-20-2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: Callum Kerr ]

[Melusine]

Well, I'm not saying I was never told anything, or that my mother wouldn't have had objections no matter what I did. It's just that she raised me well enough for it to be hardly ever necessary to actually forbid me things.
For instance, she never gave me a time by which I had to be home when I started going out in the weekends. But that's BECAUSE I never abused the fact. I never stayed away all night without letting her know where I was. So there was no need for her to go all "and if you're not home by 1 o'clock I'll kill whatever bastard it was that kept you so long". I was smart enough to know I shouldn't cycle home in the middle of the night all by myself, and she knew it too. So she didn't have to make rules about that either. At a pretty young age, I was allowed to go to concerts, sometimes even on school nights. But I was only allowed that because my mother KNEW I was doing well at school.
When I had my first boyfriend (I think I was about 14-15), she tried to make him feel comfortable at my place, take an interest in him instead of threatening him. And of course he was allowed to spend time with me in my room (which was in the attic). Why? Because neither of us was NEAR ready for intimate stuff. Hell, it took ages for there to be as much as a little kiss. If I wasn't ready for it, I wouldn't do it anyway. So why would she worry about this guy? There never was a reason for it.

In short... I DID have rules to obey. But rather than having restrictive rules that imply teenagers are good for nothing, irresponsible, horrible little jerks (a popular view with some people, I know), my mother gave me enough responsibility and common sense to KNOW and actually *gasp* AGREE WITH the implicit rules. She didn't have to tell me "be home at such and such time or I'll kill you", because I would never leave her at home worried, not knowing where I was. I'd call her and she'd know it was ok.
And actually taking an interest in the people I called my friends, rather than seeing them as potential enemies who could lead astray her little girl, made it possible for her to actually see for herself they were nothing to fear.
Don't treat teenagers as adults - they are not. But do not treat them as your little babies either (that's the impression I often get from the pond scum fathers - that they'd wish their little baby NEVER gets a normal, healthy interest in sex). Treat them as people who will be adults within a couple of years and need to learn how to.

[ 02-20-2003, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

[Epona]

Originally posted by Melusine: In short... I DID have rules to obey. But rather than having restrictive rules that imply teenagers are good for nothing, irresponsible, horrible little jerks (a popular view with some people, I know), my mother gave me enough responsibility and common sense to KNOW and actually *gasp* AGREE WITH the implicit rules. She didn't have to tell me "be home at such and such time or I'll kill you", because I would never leave her at home worried, not knowing where I was. I'd call her and she'd know it was ok.

Exactly. I always phoned her if I was going to be later than usual, or if I was going a long way from home, because the last thing I would want is for my mum to be worrying about me.

It's worth adding that if teens don't get a chance to take on some responsibility for their own lives, they will not learn how to act responsibly.

And actually taking an interest in the people I called my friends, rather than seeing them as potential enemies who could lead astray her little girl, made it possible for her to actually see for herself they were nothing to fear. Don't treat teenagers as adults - they are not. But do not treat them as your little babies either (that's the impression I often get from the pond scum fathers - that they'd wish their little baby NEVER gets a normal, healthy interest in sex). Treat them as people who will be adults within a couple of years and need to learn how to.

Couldn't agree more. My friends, male or female, were always made to feel welcome in our house. My parents knew they didn't have to watch over me 24/7. I was no angel, but at the same time I never did anything really awful - and I learned things for myself.
By treating teens as little children, you are not preparing them for the time when they take their first steps into a bigger world - which in turn leads to irresponsible adults. You're not born knowing how to act as an adult, you have to learn it - and be allowed to learn.

[The Hierophant]

Word up Mel and Epona [img]smile.gif[/img] That's a sage point of view.

[Animal]

My daughter will be 11 this year, so I've got a couple of years yet.

There's a couple of things you need to keep in mind.
1. Blood is thicker than water. The father will always believe his daughter, and if you try to blame her or in anyway pass the blame, you'll look even worse.
2. Fathers are EXTREMELY protective of their daughters.

My advice, for what it's worth, step up to the plate and take responsibility for your actions. Your girlfriends father could very well be testing you to see what kind of a man you are. No matter how nervous or scary it may be, you need to sit down with this guy and talk to him, man to man. He'll have a lot more respect for you.