!!!HELP ME!!! Messed up BIG with the girlfriend's dad...!!!!!!!!!

[Bungleau]

Yep, heading wa-a-a-ay off topic now... ahhh, I feel better just acknowledging it.

Regarding child support, my point is that it's based on income, and while it can be retroactive (as often was in my case, growing up), it's based on income at the time. So if the daddy starts at 17, I'm assuming (there's that word again) that income up to the age of 23 will be fairly constant and fairly low. From 23 onward, it will increase by some nominal amount. And at the age of 35, the obligation to pay ceases (although back support may still be owed).

My understanding as well is that the support amount remains constant unless there's a petition to change it. So the amount assigned at 17 (which is, I believe, a dollar amount and not a percentage) would be the same at 35 unless there were a petition to change it.

If junior is born when daddy is 35, however, daddy will be 53 when he's done paying. And daddy's income is likely to be much higher, and hence the child support amount higher as well.

So young males are little penalized for leaving errant offspring behind, while older males are more heavily penalized. That's a pretty regressive plan. A more even plan would be $10,000 per child per year, but if daddy's prolific, he'll be in bankruptcy soon.

And I'm glad you liked the revenge/crow comment. Feel free to use it wherever appropriate.

[Epona]

I think the whole child support argument is somewhat missing my point. Yes, accidents happen, but if teenagers are educated about safe sex and allowed/encouraged to get contraception, the risks are reduced greatly.

IMO, saying to a teenager 'no you must not have sex' end of story, is more dangerous than saying 'if you can't be good, be careful' and letting them have access to contraception. Many teenagers hold quite frankly bizarre ideas about contraception if they've not been educated properly about safe sex (and let's be honest, there is a lot more to worry about than pregnancy these days), and it is more often this ignorance that leads to unwanted pregnancies, than people who have been properly taught about contraception having sex.

When I was 16 I had a boyfriend whos mum used to go out and buy him condoms, and tell him to make sure we used them. We did, although I was quite happy to go buy them myself, or in the UK it's possible to get them or other contraception from your doctor or a family planning clinic even under the age of 16 (as Donut rightly said). Believe me, if my mum had banned him from visiting my bedroom (which she didn't) we'd just have found somewhere else to do it.

As it was, I was educated about the risks, how to minimise those risks, and above all not to feel guilty about being a woman with sexual desires. At age 16 I was mentally and emotionally mature enough to make those decisions (which is also the case legally here) and I have never once done anything I regretted (I'm 31 now btw). Let me tell you, in the years since I was 16 I have not changed significantly - I was no less mature then than I am now, which I think is due to the way I was brought up - by liberal parents who did not cosset me or try to prevent me from learning for myself.

Bungleau, the reason those girls never let on that they had hormones raging, same as the boys, was because a girl is viewed as cheap and nasty if she 'puts out'. I think we need a more enlightened view on this in our modern age. Nobody would get anywhere with me by promising things they weren't going to deliver, or telling me they loved me when they didn't. If a man can want to have sex just for the sake of it, why can't a woman? Alternatively you could all just think I'm a cheap tart LOL, because I don't expect promises of marriage or undying love from anyone - so on that score it would not be possible to 'deceive' me into sleeping with someone - if I wanted to I would, and if I didn't want to I wouldn't, end of.

So I'm either enlightened and modern, or a cheap slag, depending on your point of view [img]smile.gif[/img] I really think it's time to rethink our attitudes towards women and sex to be honest.

[Melusine]

Brilliant post Epona, and one I agree with 100%. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

Well, Epona, let me partially agree with your post but make some points:
1. Don't screw my daughter in my house. It's disrespectful. Take her to some parking lot and find some way to cram yourself into the back seat and still be romantic just like I did.
2. My daughter isn't allowed in your house when your parents aren't there - same with my house when me/my wife are gone. It's unseemly. Even if you are a tart, I don't want the neighbors talking.
3. If you allow my son to screw your daughter in your house, fine by me and good for him. But, sorry, I will always down deep view you as a bad parent and her as just a bit tart-ish.
4. If your parents allow you to screw my daughter in their house, and she's under the age of consent, I'm reporting you for statutory rape and your parents for conspiracy to commit rape.
5. If #4 applies and she is over the age of consent, I will simply not allow her to go to your house. If she wants to, she (and you) can disobey me and risk my wrath just like any other red-blooded American teen in the history of normal living.
6. My daughter is not allowed to have sex (with my knowledge), but if she does and turns up pregnant she can move out and live her own life. Some decisions/actions declare your status as an adult. This is one of them. And, you can suffer the repurcussions of your actions just like any other adult. I will support her so long as she lives by my rules. I will still love her when she doesn't, but I won't subsidize this bullshit.
6a. Regarding proper sex education, she can have some library books that are quite descriptive, and I'm happy to discuss anything frankly.
6b. Regarding proper use of birth control, I see #6 as plenty of incentive. Find your free condoms and rent-by-the-hour room elsewhere.
7. At the tender age of 15/16, she should be avoiding boys, which are immature useless vessels for hormones and idiocy at that age anyway. She should be behind closed doors with her girlfriends giggling and exploring *that* side of her sexuality like any normal 15/16 year old girl. Go ahead, ladies, protest all you want - but I'm onto your ways.
8. If she can live my these crazy backward 1950's-era rules and still learn to mess around with boys and live her life without my or anyone else's knowledge, then she has truly learned how to behave maturely and discretely about sex like an adult. And she owes me a big honkin' THANK YOU.

[ 02-18-2003, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[The Cavalier]

a lot of valid points, and a few off topic, but again I thank you all.

I just used hardass to describe her father because it fits him good, I can understand why fathers are hardasses about their daughters.

Somebody said she may be given an ultimatum, and she was. her father took her car away and said he's not giving it back unless she gets rid off me. I think she will get it back, because she is very active (school, cheerleading, track, etc.), and it is illogical for him to keep it from her. she needs it for more than just visiting me. her stepmom will soon tire of running her all over hell and having to pick her up all the time.

So far, things look like they may begin picking up a little bit. With a job and car and good grades, I look a little more respectable and promising to her father.

Worst case scenario is that we can only date (like hang out or go on dates or etc.) when she is at her mother's (she is only at her father's every other weekend). It may be a LONG time before her father even lets me go to church with her/them.

someone mentioned that we could have a long future together, and although we are only 17 & 16, we care for each other alot. I'm not really one who believes in high school romances working anyway, but hey, we are pretty serious. I wouldn't rule anything out.

[The Cavalier]

!!!!!GOOD NEWS!!!!!

Shely comprimised with her father (her mom is cool with me, she's just mad at Michelle for lying to her), we are allowed to see each other and hang out and whatnot, but he's gonna check up on me six months from now, and if I don't have a productive life (I'm gonna be graduated, have a job, and a car, etc.), he's gonna do something. I dunno.

[RevRuby]

i like your list tl! i grew up in the "don;t do it" society. even in my family. i can honestly say tho that i held on to my *v* so long for myself, i just never felt ready, heck i didn;t even feel ready when it happened, but it did (not rape) either way i eventually got pregnant. i have a beautiful little girl because of that. nathan wants very much to raise our children conservatively, and i like that idea, but if one comes to me and says "i'm feeling pressured about sex" or anything similar i will talk to him/her about safe sex and the fact that becoming a young grandma won;t make me disown them or even remove them from my home. however making me the mother of someone who has had an abortion, or supported the decision for one would cause many problems. i have no problem with the creation of life so long as responsibility is taken. those who have had abortions say "take a walk in my shoes" i say "take a walk in mine"

anyway back on topic-good news to hear, i am happy for you.

[AzRaeL StoRmBlaDe]

Originally posted by The Cavalier: !!!!!GOOD NEWS!!!!! Shely comprimised with her father (her mom is cool with me, she's just mad at Michelle for lying to her), we are allowed to see each other and hang out and whatnot, but he's gonna check up on me six months from now, and if I don't have a productive life (I'm gonna be graduated, have a job, and a car, etc.), he's gonna do something. I dunno.

Bahh don't let him threaten you, just ignore him.

[Bungleau]

Congrats, Cavalier. Sounds like things are heading back the right way.

And I wouldn't ignore her father on his six months comment. Reading between the lines, it doesn't sound like he's being a hardass about it (just to bring that up again). Rather it sounds like he's looked at things, and if you're still around in six months, odds are going to be better than average that you'll be around much longer. So he's trying (IMHO) to give you suggestions about what can make the future after those six months a whole lot easier for the both of you.

IOW, he's saying to get a plan for your future, whatever it is. I've talked with people whose plans for the future involve buying lottery tickets on Saturday nights. They rarely get further than Saturday night. If you make a plan, you may not achieve it, but you will do more than if you hadn't made a plan.

Good luck, and I mean it.

*B*

[Lady Aberdene]

Epona, I think you are the the exception on your level of maturity at the age of 16. Thank goodness I am more mature now than I was at 16 and at 31 I hope to be more than I am now. I think it is well known how physical boys/men are on this subject and even at 16 a girl wants it to be more than sex. Long time boyfriend and feels the love and all that.