05-29-2002, 01:43 PM | #41 | |
Dracolisk
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05-29-2002, 01:46 PM | #42 | |
20th Level Warrior
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[img]\"http://home.earthlink.net/~rudedawg/images/perin14.gif\" alt=\" - \" /><br />The RudeDawg, known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes<br /><br />Think Different. Keeper of the Bunnies of Total Self Confidence <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[bunny]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/bunny.gif\" /> |
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05-29-2002, 01:46 PM | #43 |
Ironworks Moderator
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Age: 60
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Guys and ladies, I shouldn't have to say this, but PLAY NICE. It's fine to have differences of opinion, but if they start becoming personal attacks, I WILL ring down the curtain on this thread.
Things are already starting to get hot in here. If they get hotter, I will put the smack down on it. -Sazerac
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05-29-2002, 01:48 PM | #44 |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
Join Date: August 31, 2001
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Sorry, but I seriously cannot see the logic behind the death penalty.
Let's break it down with an example of soemone who lives in a country with the death penalty: Step 1. Someone does something extrememly wrong, for example killing a couple innocents. step 2. Because we as a society all seem to agree that killing people is wrong.... step 3. He is killed. Is it just me or is there some seriously broken logic here.
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05-29-2002, 01:57 PM | #45 |
Elminster
Join Date: October 26, 2001
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This argument has been played out time and time again in a variety of forums, and I don't think anybody is any closer to swaying one side over today than ever before. Thus, this all must come to the presenting of the mother of total subjective thought: opinion. Ahem... I consider myself a liberal (in most aspects), yet I have little moral problems with the death penalty whatsoever. What is atrocious is that yes, there are some (many?) innocent people who will wrongly be put to death because of our system... true. However, what else to do? Keep these individuals in jail for life, all while giving them free access to cable television, a weight room, hot meals, and I have to pay for it (although not all prisoners get this posh lifestyle, many do)? Granted it does cost taxpayers more to put a prisoner to death than it does to keep him/her in jail for life, but it's the principle. Plain and simply, this man was convicted (there's the key word... they've been convicted in a court of law, had the right to an attorney, had the right to appeal, etc.). I would rather pay $100 to end a convicted murderer's life than $10 to let them live a life of comparable luxury. I am confident that with our judicial system's establishment of checks and balances, and the development of further forensic science, that our system is as good as it gets. If anybody has a better idea, I welcome it. But thus far, I feel I've heard quite a bit, and I still believe we have one of the best systems out there. If you disagree, feel free to voice your opinion, or better yet, do something about it to change the system. I'm just thankful that I live in a country (one of many)where I can act to change a system, if I so choose. We all could have been born somewher else (Yay, our countries... let's all be thankful). Then again, like I said before, philisophical debate such as this is all boils down to opinion. So, please, let's all remember that just because some of us may disagree with others, it doesn't make anybody less educated, enlightened, or just.
[ 05-29-2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Gammit ]
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05-29-2002, 01:58 PM | #46 |
Symbol of Bane
Join Date: November 26, 2001
Location: Texas
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Talthyr, that is a fallacy. We have NOT decide "as a society that killing is wrong." Some elements of society have made that startling leap. We have decided that murder is wrong, and has been for thousands of years. Killing is sometimes the duty of the state, such as when war is being waged. The state can kill a terrorist, or an enemy soldier, or a convicted murderer. Just because there is no proven deterrance is no argument at all, really, because, since time immemorial, humankind has killied people who murder other humans.
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05-29-2002, 01:59 PM | #47 | |
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A study of jury death sentencing in Philadelphia between 1983 and 1993 found that black defendants were 38% more likely than non-black defendants to receive the death penalty. In Illinois, 87% of death row inmates are black On the 50th anniversary of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, President Clinton signed an executive order to the effect that the U.S. would honor numerous international treaties with respect to minimal standards and safeguards applicable to the death penalty, including ICCPR, the Geneva Convention, and the ECOSOC. However, the U.S. continues to violate these treaties by executing juveniles and the mentally ill and accepting a racial bias in the application of the death penalty. Statistics demonstrate that the death penalty does not deter murder. The South, which accounts for roughly 80% of the executions carried out in the U.S., maintains the highest murder rate of American regions. The Northeast, which accounts for roughly 1% of executions, has the lowest murder rate. A conference of police chiefs in 1995 placed the death penalty last as a factor in reducing violent crime From 1985 to 1995, Amnesty International has documented the execution of juveniles in eight countries: Bangladesh, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and the United States. Of those countries, the United States by far had executed the most juveniles. |
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05-29-2002, 02:10 PM | #48 | |
Drow Priestess
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[img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] Seriously, I simply must write that down in my diary. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] *************** Let me reiterate: If a 17-year-old commits an adult crime, then the 17-year-old must accept the adult consequences.
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05-29-2002, 02:14 PM | #49 | |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
Join Date: August 31, 2001
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And about humans killing murder since time immemorial, so what if they have... just because we have diesn't mean we should continue to do so, murdering someone who has murdered is still murder, and murdering them is simple revenge, we may now have trials and judges, but why do they have the right to have a person murdered? Why is murdering them so much better than sticking them in a prison for life??
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Resident cantankerous sorcerer of the Clan HADB<br />and Sorcerous Nuttella salesman of the O.R.T<br /> <br /><br />Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny! Can I drill you about this? |
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05-29-2002, 02:17 PM | #50 |
Baaz Draconian
Join Date: October 11, 2001
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Sigh... There is no easy answer here. Can we all (both sides) agree that it is frustrating that a murderer/ rapist/ pedophile/ whatever can live in jail with all his meals provided, entertainment and health privileges, etc, while there are many good, decent homeless people who we do nothing to help? They starve to death, or freeze in winter because nobody is willing to help "the bums who won't get a job" and yet criminals are given food and shelter at our expense. Just seems wrong, doesn't it? So what can be done? There is increasing frustration at "criminal rights" being greater then the rights of innocents.
Here's another stupid example. There was a 7-up ad pulled because it shows the spokesperson in jail and when he drops his 7-up, he says "I'm not picking that up". 7-up was forced to remove it because it made fun of prison rape and hurt the criminals feelings... Give me a break.
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