On the lookout for a new car again - suggestions welcome!

[Memnoch]

Way back in 2002 I posted this thread asking for some suggestions on what kind of car I should get - I was choosing between an Alfa Romeo GTV or a Volkswagen Jetta (Bora in OZ) VR6. I ended up going with the Alfa. Unfortunately that all ended badly in late 2004 as I sued the clowns for incompetence when my car blew up (Johnny's first post on the first link I provided was strangely prophetic in hindsight). Ironically, when I got to Boston I ended up getting a (used) VW Jetta VR6 anyway which has served me faithfully in the sun, snow and rain.

Unfortunately it's breaking down more and more (it was 95000miles when I got it and is now 109000miles) so I'm looking at selling it when I graduate (I got a job offer here in Boston with Boston Scientific). So I'm hoping that I actually get this decision right this time.

I'm open to other cars at the moment, but I'm looking at a used vehicle (no older than 3 or 4 years) - so far I've looked at the following:

2004 Mazda RX-8 (rear wheel drive, sports car, 4 seats, 238bhp)



and the 2004 Audi A4 (3L, 4 door, 5 seat sedan, 220bhp, all wheel drive)



Both are around $20Kish, which is around about my budget (no more spending $50K on a car (Alfa) that breaks down for me). Both are different - one is more a sports car, the other is a sports sedan. Both have at least 4 seats which will suit when parents and friends visit. The Audi is more practical but still has good power (0-60 in about 7 secs) while the Mazda is probably a better drive and looks prettier (0-60 in about 6.3 secs).

So my decision is not that much different from what it was with Alfa v VW in my original thread back in 2002 - style vs practicality. The difference is that I'm now 5 years older and practicality is probably more important to me. I need to settle down into corporate life again.

Suggestions and comments would be welcomed. Something I was curious about was how rear wheel drive cars operate in snow/icy conditions. I know from experience here in Boston that when you're driving on unplowed streets it doesn't really matter if you have front, rear or all wheel drive - you're going to slip and slide. But I was hearing from friends that it's far harder to drive RWD cars than FWD ones in winter conditions - that was why I decided to get a VW which was FWD. The Audi is attractive for that reason as it's four wheel drive.

Can anyone who lives in a place which has a snowy/icy winter and drives a rear wheel drive car give me some insights?

[Sir Krustin]

RWD is much poorer in snowy weather, and also to a lesser extent in icy weather.

One main problem with snow and RWD is the tendency for the front wheels to "plow" the snow rather than rolling through it - this makes the limited traction conditions that much more difficult to negotiate. FWD cars also are easier to turn as the fronts are pulling the car around the corner.

Both, of course, are hard to stop under slippery conditions.

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Sir Krustin: RWD is much poorer in snowy weather, and also to a lesser extent in icy weather. One main problem with snow and RWD is the tendency for the front wheels to "plow" the snow rather than rolling through it - this makes the limited traction conditions that much more difficult to negotiate. FWD cars also are easier to turn as the fronts are pulling the car around the corner. Both, of course, are hard to stop under slippery conditions.

Whey you say much poorer, what do you mean specifically? Have you ever been in a situation where you can't accelerate your car forward at all?

[Winter Wolf]

I think he may be referring to the fact that a RWD vehicle has a tendency to fishtail, which is made worse by winter weather. AWD on the other hand, allows to you to keep max traction. HOWEVER, with AWD, if you get stuck, you're REALLY stuck. I've been stuck with all three (RWD, FWD, AWD), and I can tell you from experience, you'll be needing a shovel and some boards to get a AWD unstuck if it happens. FWD is nice most of the time, though you sacrifice a bit in your 'get up and go' department, pulling being less efficient than pushing (RWD). Keeping in mind that I grew up in Alaska and have no idea what Boston weather is like in the cold months.

Get the practical car. If you've got a family, handling is more important than looking good. Not that the Audi looks *bad* or anything. I just envy you for having the money to afford a ~$20K car of any kind.

[Bungleau]

Driving a RWD car on snow is completely different from FWD. With RWD, you're toeing the line between driving a car and guiding a missile. If you can drive a car by the feel of it, then RWD is okay for you. If you don't know what that means, and aren't interested in finding out (possibly the hard way), then FWD is better.

My last RWD was my 1972 Chevy Nova... big brute of a beast. The desire to get going combined with the challenge of continuing to point forward made for some interesting situations...

My personal preference is FWD with ABS and Traction Control (which is really ABS in reverse). Doesn't have the true "get up and go" of a sports car, but you've seen Boston traffic... when can you really do that?

[Memnoch]

I know how to drive a car by feel and have driven RWD cars before - I nearly stacked my sister's MG in Australia going too hard around a corner, the back started to slide out and it started to oversteer, so I had to give it more gas, turn the wheel the other way and basically get it back on the right line. It was a mid engine though (the engine was behind my head) and really easy to handle, and of course there was no ice or snow. I wouldn't be too keen on doing that on ice or snow (even if the road's been partially treated - they're not the best at treating roads in a timely fashion here).

My other cars have all been front drivers (Honda Integra Type R and Alfa) which tend more to understeer. My car right now (VW Jetta VR6) is FWD with ABS and traction control.

Did I ever give you a lift when you were in Boston btw?

[ 04-02-2007, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Bungleau]

Ahhhh.... then RWD isn't out of the picture. My better half doesn't know how to drive by feel... by hearing the engine talk to you. It's one of those things where if you don't get it, you won't get it [img]smile.gif[/img]

You didn't give me a lift back then... methinks we all went our separate ways on the T. Perhaps the next time... I should be scheduling another Boston trip in the next month or two. My January trip was a quick in-and-out.

[Felix The Assassin]

Three things of ya Memnoch;
1. Our 01 VR6 is 30K behind yours, what might be some of these breakdowns you are experiencing?

2. A RWD in the snow/ice is more oft to get 'squirrelly' from too much torque, or excessive throttle romping when the conditions warrant slippage/spin-outs. I have never been to that area, so cannot judge on how much the adverse conditions might induce RWD issues.

My current ride is an 04 Ford F150 4x2, with the small engine which is comparable to the Mazda HP wise, but produces a lot more torque (231hp/293lb-ft). The snow, and more serious problematic ice storms here have not hindered my commutability. However, I do load 400lbs of cement during the winter months for traction and rear braking assistance, all the while using only off the showroom 4x2 all season 17" truck tires.

3. Our IT guy has an RX-8, sweet! But I'd go with the Audi. I have seen many Audis put through GI torture in my many years in Germany. They are liken to the battery bunny, they keep going and going.
However, that 3.0l V6 is the Audi version, while in VW form it's a 2.8l. That might be a consideration as well from your past experience. Plus the fuel economy will be a little less due to the "Quattro" as the VW, but will actually be better than the big bore Mazda.

[Memnoch]

G'day Felix. The breakdowns are more of the annoying, non-engine related variety - stuff like bits starting to fall off from the interior (eg the glovebox handle, the centre armrest lock, etc). I've been having an endless problem with the this engine check light coming on - apparently it's to do with the fuel injection and the emissions. They've tried to fix it three times over the past year and a half but every six months it'll come on and have to be reset/fixed. It doesn't affect driving, it's just annoying.

I got this car for $9K with 95K miles on the clock when I started my MBA - my first service with VW (the 100K one) cost me $1800!! Then I had a problem with the immobiliser which cost $1000. That's nearly a third of the purchase price. If the services are going to keep being like that I want to get rid of it and get something newer.

[Hivetyrant]

Hmm, tough choice, I have driven both (only the Audi in poor icy weather though) and must say that I was fairly impressed by it's handeling, however I know two people that swear by the RX-8's and would never stray....

I can't give you a definate answer, but I can say that both are good choices!