Bush Stamps on States rights - Page 3

Night Stalker · 12-02-2002, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norompanlasolas:

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
Hey! Welcome back from court [img]smile.gif[/img] How'd it go?

I think you took my comment about drammie in the wrong direction...I was gonna bring up Ad. Hom attacks and Straw men..but thought that it would have been mean so I droped it from my post [img]smile.gif[/img] .

ok, ive read it a few times and im tired of not knowing what it means (the problems of not being a native english speakers). what does straw men/man means? i have a guess but i want to confirm it. thanks for your time and please dont charge me for the information. [/QUOTE]It is one of the Fallacies of Debate/Logic. Without getting technical, it is basically an arguement that the presenter sets up specifically for the purpose of tearing it apart. Hence the image of "beating up a straw man". I can't remember exactly why it invalidates an arguement though.

Timber Loftis · 12-02-2002, 06:23 PM

From dictionary.com and all for FREE!! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

straw man
n.
A person who is set up as cover or a front for a questionable enterprise.
An argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated.
A bundle of straw made into the likeness of a man and often used as a scarecrow.
[note: the second is the one MagiK referenced]

ad hom·i·nem ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hm-nm, -nm)
adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.

[Latin : ad, to + hominem, accusative of hom, man.]

ad homi·nem adv.
Usage Note: As the principal meaning of the preposition ad suggests, the homo of ad hominem was originally the person to whom an argument was addressed, not its subject. The phrase denoted an argument designed to appeal to the listener's emotions rather than to reason, as in the sentence The Republicans' evocation of pity for the small farmer struggling to maintain his property is a purely ad hominem argument for reducing inheritance taxes. This usage appears to be waning; only 37 percent of the Usage Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The phrase now chiefly describes an argument based on the failings of an adversary rather than on the merits of the case: Ad hominem attacks on one's opponent are a tried-and-true strategy for people who have a case that is weak. Ninety percent of the Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The expression now also has a looser use in referring to any personal attack, whether or not it is part of an argument, as in It isn't in the best interests of the nation for the press to attack him in this personal, ad hominem way. This use is acceptable to 65 percent of the Panel. ·Ad hominem has also recently acquired a use as a noun denoting personal attacks, as in “Notwithstanding all the ad hominem, Gingrich insists that he and Panetta can work together” (Washington Post). This usage may raise some eyebrows, though it appears to be gaining ground in journalistic style. ·A modern coinage patterned on ad hominem is ad feminam, as in “Its treatment of Nabokov and its ad feminam attack on his wife Vera often border on character assassination” (Simon Karlinsky). Though some would argue that this neologism is unnecessary because the Latin word homo refers to humans generically, rather than to the male sex, in some contexts ad feminam has a more specific meaning than ad hominem, being used to describe attacks on women as women or because they are women, as in “Their recourse... to ad feminam attacks evidences the chilly climate for women's leadership on campus” (Donna M. Riley).

[note: MagiK likely used this incorrectly as applied to my post]

HTH [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

12-02-2002, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
[note: MagiK likely used this incorrectly as applied to my post]

HTH [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

Actually MagiK usedit exactly the way he intended to use it. You just took the direction that my post was ment to go, wrongly [img]smile.gif[/img] All explained in a PM since it was kind of rude to start with.

12-02-2002, 08:42 PM

Well I tired to send PM to you TL but ..got an error message aboutnot connecting to the smtp server..so check you PM's it may have got there but not gone out via email.

12-02-2002, 06:23 PM	#22
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	From dictionary.com and all for FREE!! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] straw man n. A person who is set up as cover or a front for a questionable enterprise. An argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated. A bundle of straw made into the likeness of a man and often used as a scarecrow. [note: the second is the one MagiK referenced] ad hom·i·nem ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hm-nm, -nm) adj. Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives. [Latin : ad, to + hominem, accusative of hom, man.] ad homi·nem adv. Usage Note: As the principal meaning of the preposition ad suggests, the homo of ad hominem was originally the person to whom an argument was addressed, not its subject. The phrase denoted an argument designed to appeal to the listener's emotions rather than to reason, as in the sentence The Republicans' evocation of pity for the small farmer struggling to maintain his property is a purely ad hominem argument for reducing inheritance taxes. This usage appears to be waning; only 37 percent of the Usage Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The phrase now chiefly describes an argument based on the failings of an adversary rather than on the merits of the case: Ad hominem attacks on one's opponent are a tried-and-true strategy for people who have a case that is weak. Ninety percent of the Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The expression now also has a looser use in referring to any personal attack, whether or not it is part of an argument, as in It isn't in the best interests of the nation for the press to attack him in this personal, ad hominem way. This use is acceptable to 65 percent of the Panel. ·Ad hominem has also recently acquired a use as a noun denoting personal attacks, as in “Notwithstanding all the ad hominem, Gingrich insists that he and Panetta can work together” (Washington Post). This usage may raise some eyebrows, though it appears to be gaining ground in journalistic style. ·A modern coinage patterned on ad hominem is ad feminam, as in “Its treatment of Nabokov and its ad feminam attack on his wife Vera often border on character assassination” (Simon Karlinsky). Though some would argue that this neologism is unnecessary because the Latin word homo refers to humans generically, rather than to the male sex, in some contexts ad feminam has a more specific meaning than ad hominem, being used to describe attacks on women as women or because they are women, as in “Their recourse... to ad feminam attacks evidences the chilly climate for women's leadership on campus” (Donna M. Riley). [note: MagiK likely used this incorrectly as applied to my post] HTH [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] __________________

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12-02-2002, 08:42 PM	#24
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	Well I tired to send PM to you TL but ..got an error message aboutnot connecting to the smtp server..so check you PM's it may have got there but not gone out via email.

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