Shadowdancers

wellard · 07-29-2006, 06:19 AM

Shadowdancers

Is that the worst prestege class in the whole game? Why would you bother? has anyone ever stuck with and enjoyed a full Shadowdancer build to a character?

Legolas · 07-29-2006, 06:22 AM

It's my favourite prestige class actually.

A good reason to bother is the first-level Hide in Plain Sight feat, another the rogueish bonus feats. I'll admit that the three abilities don't amount to much (even the epic shadowlord is underpowered, the shadow evade doesn't last long and the daze is only reasonably effective) but it's a good help to certain DEX builds and they've a nice background thing going on with the natural shadow affinity.

Harper Scout is generally seen as the worst prestige class since they've some very demanding requirements and offer next to nothing in return.

The Red Dragon Disciple is the most popular, which is understandable considering you get a +8 strength bonus, other stat boosts, breath attack, decent hitpoints, fire and paralysis immunity, +4 AC and wings.

Most builds involving the shadowdancer are of the rogue, bard, monk or ranger x/ shadowdancer 1 type though. It's the HIPS that is the main appeal from a power point of view. My own is currently a rogue 10/dancer 11 and I'm quite happy with that.

[ 07-29-2006, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: Legolas ]

T-D-C · 07-29-2006, 08:12 AM

I actually have a character around here some where with heaps of shadowdancer levels and I love it. My Epic Shadow lord is the equivilent of a level 28 fighter which can come in handy since its immune to quite a lot of things.

Add in the Self Concelment feats and Epic Dodge and its quite hard to hit.

robertthebard · 07-29-2006, 09:59 AM

Yeah, Harper Scout, absolute worst prestige class ever...Shadowdancer, not so much. The benefits have been laid out but I'd like to add that there is nothing like disengaging combat, and hiding, right in front of your enemy, changing position, and restarting combat. It comes in handy, a lot.

T-D-C · 07-29-2006, 06:59 PM

The only good thing about the Harper Scout prestige class is that most of its stat boosting spells stack with other stat boosting spells.

Zebodog · 07-30-2006, 02:17 PM

The HIPS of the Shadowdancer works nicely with the sneak/death attach of a rogue, assasin or blackguard character. Most wont even know what hit them.

wellard · 07-30-2006, 06:26 PM

Accepting the first level feat "hide in plain sight" is usefull, But is this feat not available with some armor or hoods in the game? and certainly can be replicated to some degree with a big stockpile of invisibility in the quick selection box.

but after taking one level in shadow dancer what has the kit got that would not be better spent in general rougue or assasin levels?

Legolas · 07-30-2006, 07:59 PM

Unless you want to take epic dodge and/or self concealment feats, yes, the stronger builds work on increasing the sneak attack damage.

The feat can be added to items as a bonus feat but since it encompasses most of the class' unique strength most more balanced modules won't make that available.

Invisibility potions/spells are typically inferior to the hiding since they provoke an attack of opportunity, are vulnerable to the see invisibility magics and take longer to kick in. Improved invisibility is useful when cast before a combat as it gives a 50% concealment bonus.

chimaera · 08-01-2006, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wellard:
[QB] and certainly can be replicated to some degree with a big stockpile of invisibility in the quick selection box.

The attack/disengage/HIPS sequence can't be replicated by potions. It is one of the reasons why HIPS is so popular/overpowered.

Legolas · 08-01-2006, 05:52 AM

In my opinion the two main reasons it's overpowered are that spot and listen are cross class skills for most of the classes, and that most characters get so few skill points they can't invest them in anything but the essential skills.

07-29-2006, 06:19 AM	#1
wellard Dracolisk Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Australia ..... G\'day! Posts: 6,123	Shadowdancers Is that the worst prestege class in the whole game? Why would you bother? has anyone ever stuck with and enjoyed a full Shadowdancer build to a character? __________________ fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years

07-29-2006, 08:12 AM	#3
T-D-C Ironworks Moderator Join Date: October 26, 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 4,415	I actually have a character around here some where with heaps of shadowdancer levels and I love it. My Epic Shadow lord is the equivilent of a level 28 fighter which can come in handy since its immune to quite a lot of things. Add in the Self Concelment feats and Epic Dodge and its quite hard to hit. __________________

07-29-2006, 09:59 AM	#4
robertthebard Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Wichita, KS USA Age: 60 Posts: 4,537	Yeah, Harper Scout, absolute worst prestige class ever...Shadowdancer, not so much. The benefits have been laid out but I'd like to add that there is nothing like disengaging combat, and hiding, right in front of your enemy, changing position, and restarting combat. It comes in handy, a lot. __________________ To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free. Good Music: Here. Interesting read, one of my blogs.

07-29-2006, 06:59 PM	#5
T-D-C Ironworks Moderator Join Date: October 26, 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 4,415	The only good thing about the Harper Scout prestige class is that most of its stat boosting spells stack with other stat boosting spells. __________________

07-30-2006, 02:17 PM	#6
Zebodog Avatar Join Date: May 14, 2005 Location: Edmonton Age: 74 Posts: 578	The HIPS of the Shadowdancer works nicely with the sneak/death attach of a rogue, assasin or blackguard character. Most wont even know what hit them. __________________ Disclaimer: If this thread, or a link within this thread leads you to follow advice that crashes/explodes/burns down or any way damages your system or causes personal stress or hardship, I am in no way responsible for any problems.

07-29-2006, 06:22 AM	#2
Legolas Jack Burton Join Date: March 31, 2001 Location: The zephyr lands beneath the brine. Age: 39 Posts: 5,459	It's my favourite prestige class actually. A good reason to bother is the first-level Hide in Plain Sight feat, another the rogueish bonus feats. I'll admit that the three abilities don't amount to much (even the epic shadowlord is underpowered, the shadow evade doesn't last long and the daze is only reasonably effective) but it's a good help to certain DEX builds and they've a nice background thing going on with the natural shadow affinity. Harper Scout is generally seen as the worst prestige class since they've some very demanding requirements and offer next to nothing in return. The Red Dragon Disciple is the most popular, which is understandable considering you get a +8 strength bonus, other stat boosts, breath attack, decent hitpoints, fire and paralysis immunity, +4 AC and wings. Most builds involving the shadowdancer are of the rogue, bard, monk or ranger x/ shadowdancer 1 type though. It's the HIPS that is the main appeal from a power point of view. My own is currently a rogue 10/dancer 11 and I'm quite happy with that. [ 07-29-2006, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: Legolas ]

07-30-2006, 06:26 PM	#7
wellard Dracolisk Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Australia ..... G\'day! Posts: 6,123	Accepting the first level feat "hide in plain sight" is usefull, But is this feat not available with some armor or hoods in the game? and certainly can be replicated to some degree with a big stockpile of invisibility in the quick selection box. but after taking one level in shadow dancer what has the kit got that would not be better spent in general rougue or assasin levels? __________________ fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years

07-30-2006, 07:59 PM	#8
Legolas Jack Burton Join Date: March 31, 2001 Location: The zephyr lands beneath the brine. Age: 39 Posts: 5,459	Unless you want to take epic dodge and/or self concealment feats, yes, the stronger builds work on increasing the sneak attack damage. The feat can be added to items as a bonus feat but since it encompasses most of the class' unique strength most more balanced modules won't make that available. Invisibility potions/spells are typically inferior to the hiding since they provoke an attack of opportunity, are vulnerable to the see invisibility magics and take longer to kick in. Improved invisibility is useful when cast before a combat as it gives a 50% concealment bonus.

08-01-2006, 05:52 AM	#10
Legolas Jack Burton Join Date: March 31, 2001 Location: The zephyr lands beneath the brine. Age: 39 Posts: 5,459	In my opinion the two main reasons it's overpowered are that spot and listen are cross class skills for most of the classes, and that most characters get so few skill points they can't invest them in anything but the essential skills. __________________ Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny!

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