Computer upgrade!

[JrKASperov]

It depends on the time. Sometimes Radeon has the best card, sometimes NVidea. Sometimes ATI has the biggest bang for the buck, sometimes NVidea. It used to be the case that Radeon drivers were pretty bad and had trouble uninstalling, but as far as I know that is not the case anymore. It totally depends on the card too.

[Raistlin Majere]

I have a feeling that in the comparative categories, the real difference noticeable to the average schmoe is limited at best, hehe..

[SpiritWarrior]

There've been historically, more problems with ATI drivers than there have with Nvidia - especially as far as compatibility is concerned. A recent example are the rendering problems in Champions Online with them still using a workaround as they wait for a co-operative fix from ATI. That's the reason I have always gone with Nvidia. *Shrug* It's up to you, a gaming card is a gaming card really.

Yes btw, you are right about the ready-built rigs not costing what they are worth and yes you will indeed get a lot more for your money by building it yourself. My question is, can you?

[Raistlin Majere]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior There've been historically, more problems with ATI drivers than there have with Nvidia - especially as far as compatibility is concerned. A recent example are the rendering problems in Champions Online with them still using a workaround as they wait for a co-operative fix from ATI. That's the reason I have always gone with Nvidia. *Shrug* It's up to you, a gaming card is a gaming card really. Yes btw, you are right about the ready-built rigs not costing what they are worth and yes you will indeed get a lot more for your money by building it yourself. My question is, can you?

I can, I built up my current rig from scratch...but it's not a process I really enjoy though hehe. But the thing with package bundles is, theres always something that gets shafted..usually the graphics card. Speaking of which, how well are they cooled? The rig I looked at has i think 5 internal fans, so I'd think thats enough to keep a crossfire/SLI configuration adequately cooled. Never done that, mind you, but I hear it boosts performance very noticeably, so would like to try it out this time.

Also need to check what the deal is with my mobo back home...I might get away with only replacing the processor and get a pair of graphics cards(I was thinking to buy another geforce 8800 GTX or whatever I have now, but I can't seem to find it at any online computer stores for some reason...) That would save me tons of money, and leave me only needing to sell two parts, which should sell fairly easy.

Though I have to admit, now I'm really itching to sell it all and build up from scratch

[SpiritWarrior]

Good was just checking if you knew what it entailed. Try look for an XPS-like casing, the aerodynamic ones that vent out air. Do not skimp on this. Try also to get it in a light color for heat reflection if you can, as opposed to black.

With an SLI and dual core setup and higher PSU, you'll be generating a lot of heat. The cards cool pretty well depending mainly on the case and room to vent. Worst comes to worst, pick up 2 zalman fans for the card you are getting and stick them on there. You can even go with water cooling if its an issue but a little more expensive.

If you can possibly find a Winxp package with option to upgrade to windows 7, grab it. I know Dell do them, for gamers like me who love XP, hate vista, and are waiting for Win 7 to work the kinks out. Not sure if you can get them seperately, but usually, they cost a little more than Win 7 on its own. Worth it IMO. Otherwise, i'd say grab Win 7 and hope for the best.

[Raistlin Majere]

Well I can install vista or xp for free, whichever one I prefer. I actually haven't had any major issues with Vista, so might just stick it out with that one until 7 is worked out.

[SecretMaster]

I'm just going to throw in my two cents here.

In regards to SLI/Crossfire setups, I would highly advise against it. Multi-GPU setups are still a relatively niche market, and there are many inherent problems with Crossfire/SLI. There always seems to be performance/driver issues with multi-card setups, especially when it comes to playing new games. Additionally, the performance doesn't always scale linearly, so two cards doesn't necessarily mean twice the performance. I always recommend the most powerful single card possible.

Now there is some great technology about to be released (hopefully) by Lucid called the Hydra. Essentially it will allow for multi GPU rigs that are model and company independent (you can run a Nvidia and AMD GPU together, or previous generations together, etc). This may increase the popularity and appeal of multi-gpu set-ups, but I'm doubtful.

If you want to go the Intel route (which I strongly recommend if you have the money, which you appear to do), the Core i5/Core i7 series is probably ideal for you. The Core i7 860 is arguably the best bang-per-buck CPU on the market. A relatively reasonable price tag, amazing power consumption numbers, and amazing performance.

AMD CPU's simply aren't up to snuff compared to Intel CPU's. They are a great value proposition, but if you are comparing performance they are simply outclassed, and their pricing strategy reflects that. The rule of thumb nowadays seems to be budget builds = AMD, and if you have the money spring for Intel (Hell even the Core i5 is a beast at ~$199.99)

I'd recommend Gigabyte motherboards, they have been absolute wonders for me. Asus still makes top-notch motherboards, but you will pay for it.

As for PSU's, you don't need a giant power supply. A 550W will be fine for CPU+Mobo+Single Card, etc. If you do choose to go a multi-GPU route, a 650-750 will probably more than adequate (a 550W could cut it, but best not to risk it).

Currently AMD has the better GPU on the market. Their DX11 (Windows 7) capable GPU, the 5xxx series, was released in September while Nvidia has yet to release their Fermi architecture. The rumor mills are abound with talk as to when Nvidia will release their card. I'm thinking some time in December, although it is quite possible they will be pushed back further to Q1 2010. As for it's performance, well no one obviously knows. However a lot of people get the sense that it won't bring any massive performance leaps. We'll have to see, but I get the sense that currently AMD will be on top for graphics this round. Their 4xxx series was a rousing success, and this 5xxx series follows suit.

The only real problem right now is there is no availability for the high-end 5xxx parts due to manufacturing problems. The manufacturer of their cards, TSMC, has been having production issues ranging all the way back to last year. I'm waiting for a 5850 and 5870 to come in stock again (for myself and my father). It could be till December or even later. I'm not expecting decent quantities for awhile though based on the problems TSMC has had.

In terms of price/performance, the 5850 is the champion. I was a little disappointed with the pricings of the 5850/5870, but once Nvidia releases their Fermi cards the prices will probably get slashed to more reasonable levels.

And as for Windows 7. I personally haven't used it but a lot of friends/colleagues are using it and they have no complaints. I have had no problems with Vista either, for what its worth.

[Raistlin Majere]

Do you know when the Fermi cards will be released? You think they'll be the next big thing? Might have to wait until they release that line of cards..if nothing else, should knock down the prices of the last generation top performers.

[SecretMaster]

Originally Posted by Raistlin Majere Do you know when the Fermi cards will be released? You think they'll be the next big thing? Might have to wait until they release that line of cards..if nothing else, should knock down the prices of the last generation top performers.

No one knows how well they will perform until they are released, however the rumor mills generally do give a good indication of what you can expect in terms of performance.

I expect the Fermi card to be more powerful than the 5xxx series in terms of raw performance. For countless generations Nvidia has always had the better performing GPU. Their design philosophy has always been "build a massive, monolithic chip". From the details we've been able to gleem, this will be another massive chip being made from Nvidia.

There are some caveats to this design philosophy. Most notably is that they are going to cost a lot. AMD's 4xxx series was a rousing success because they designed a really powerful GPU that was relatively small (smaller chips = cheaper to manufacture). When the 4850 debuted (spelling?) at the ~$189.99, I think the performance/price match was arguably the best anyone has ever seen. Nvidia has always held the performance crown, but the pricing of the GPU's compared to the performance increase was hard to justify.

So we are looking again at another huge GPU from Nvidia from what we can tell. Nvidia's own PR outlook and various rumor mills give me the impression that we shouldn't be expecting any massive performance increases from the previous generation. I'll be very surprised if it turns out the Fermi architecture is less powerful than the Cypress (5xxx series) architecture.

I don't think they will be the next big thing. AMD has the potential to wipe the floor for this generation of video cards. I expect once Fermi is released (I'd imagine at ~$300 and ~$400 price points), AMD is going to drop the prices of all their cards significantly. Right now they are milking the fact that there is no competitor at the moment. Well, they would be really milking it if there weren't massive supply problems due TSMC's manufacturing problems. If there weren't supply issues, I can't imagine how many more cards they would have sold. I'd say a lot more.

Waiting would be the smart thing to do. I don't know how long you'll have to wait though. My impression was that Fermi would be released in December, but I've read several blurbs (rumors!) that now point to January or even later. Nvidia certainly wants to get this thing out already.

[SpiritWarrior]

Problem with waiting though, is A) you're waiting and B) sometimes you can wait for a new technology to be released and then within a few month,s something better comes along I.E. Dual Cores and Core Duo's. They released a "better", "faster" dual core within months of me purchasing two first gen. dual cores. I was pissed at the time.

However, if you take this route, you can seemingly be waiting forever, as technology is always growing. But sometimes in cases like these, with a new technology, it can morph rapidly or be "patched" into something else within a few months to a year. Remember, if you read into this too much there will technically never be an ideal time to buy, and waiting will always seem prudent. Just my experiences of it.