System Shock 2, System Shock, and the lament of their fate...

[Oblivion437]

You all know of it, some of you have played it, fewer still have played System Shock, a handful know the various SHODAN references between the 2, and to all but at most 3 or 4 people will the following fact NOT be news: The first door with a code is 45100, this is in reference to the first healing suite in System Shock, the code to leave was 451. Both games stand as still ahead of their place in time. For example, stacked against UT and Quake 3, SS2 was the only game at the time with RPG elements, a solid atmosphere, and a decent plot. The graphics were inhibited by the engine (A souped up version of Dark engine), but the mood and incredible depth of the game is unsurpassable, even Deus Ex can be said to have fallen under the Boot of superiority. The original System Shock, is even further ahead of its time. It came out in a rather quiet entry as an early project for the then-fledgling now-defunct Looking Glass Studios. In the year of Doom 2, it's reviews glossed over the RPG elements, the plot, the atmosphere, and everything else, and brushed it off as a Doom clone (Duke Nukem also received this unfortunate misconception, despite your opinion of the series, you must agree, Duke was never a clone of Doom, nor was Mech Warrior, which also got this ugly little label from this bunch of Id-fanboy Jack-tards we were forced to call critics) and essentially reviewed it for less than the box cover. About the average fate of any FPS that had to compete with Doom directly. I feel that the price of admission is worth it. SS and SS2 are great games. SS2 is new enough that it will only benefit from a new computer, SS will still be new enough for you HL Lowest Common Denominator folks, running your Intel Celeron 366Mhz computers with ATI Rage IIC 4MB and 64MB RAM. I should know, I'm writing this on one. Trust me, it might take a day or two of shopping around, but if you find them, you're in for a treat. Scarier than Half Life, harder than AvP, and with a deeper plot and RPG focus than Deus Ex. I'd explain it, but a solid review does it better. Let's just say, it's astounding in it's ingenuity of implementation, with few hitches in interface overlay, considering the sheer complexity of an RPG integrated directly, and complimentarily, to an FPS. These two games have different reasonings behind their common, ill fate.
System Shock 1, for all its innovation, including the technological superiority over Doom, with technology soon to be essential to Id's next cash cow, Quake, such as texture-mapping and polygonal objects, was denounced by critics, and unfortunately, this game went out cold, dying from lack of support. It was more of a hardcore game in the end.
System Shock 2, on the other hand, was a critical success, but total failure commercially, and it's not clear why, I can't dig it up. Everyone knew it was good, so why didn't it work out? It didn't introduce so much new, in terms of new technology, just new mechanics, and pretty much rethinking squeezing every bit of power out of an engine. Remember, this came out around the same time as Thief: The Dark Project. Both games commercially failed, leaving it to their hardcore audiences. Quite sad.
What can we learn from a great series like System Shock?
Don't innovate.
That's right, don't innovate. Just turn out the usual derivative garbage that people know they want to see, but critisize all the time. It's an easy sell, it doesn't hurt anyone, and it can't be a bad idea to just offer a few new whistles and bells, rather than a whole new package, with all new contents. System Shock has proven a theory that genius is a feared thing. But, you say, GTA3, it innovated, and it sold big! We still have room for innovation!
No, you don't.
If you try something new, it has to be in a familiar context. If you try something familiar, it has to be in a new context, not both. The SS/SS2 environment (context), cramped, cybernetic environments, pure horror to the core, technological evil, and an enemy that can be said HATES you, not just shoots at you, with emotions even perceived, and the RPG elements, and intellectual question about the weight of man over machine, and a plot that you take in like a good book (new idea), all combined to one hell of a game, but at the same time, one hard sell. It seems innovation is a slow process, so when the industry is at a sweepingly different state from what it was, it took so long to get there, it doesn't really make a difference.

[Sir Krustin]

I LOVED SS and SS2, SS2 in particular had spectacular graphics for it's day. The only thing I didn't enjoy was the linearity of the plot, being railroaded into various avenues as play progressed - but it's a minor complaint, really.

R.I.P., Looking Glass....you'll be missed by this game player.

[jabidas]

Great games indeed. Ionstorm and in paticular Warren Specor are making thief 3 so there is light ahead. Seeing as he was involved in both thief and system shock not to mention the outside looking Glass Deus Ex it should rock.

[Ziroc]

Wow, You said it all. This is exactly how I feel.

I remember Looking Glass when they were 'Sky Blue' when they made Ultima Undermworld 1 and 2.. Followed them through System Shock, Cybermage and finally, The (AMAZING) Thief series.

NO other game in history for me has made me jump out of my chair or jerk my hand on my mouse (to where I thought I broke the mouse) in a few scenes in System Shock 2 and Thief 1 & 2.

It IS sad that all these stupid mindless games like 'Sam shootem up' or whatever sells millions and a SMART and innovative game fails. If it keeps up like this, we'll be playing DOOM 24 and QUAKE 25 in 20 years. (ugh).

Looking Glass was my #1 favorite company, and I have been watching the companies that they got transfered to and a few good games look to be underway. I just HOPE Thief III is sticking to the roots of the gameplay--since that other company is re-making the engine, but a few of the Looking Glass people are now there, and working on it.

I just hope they keep the game much the same.. We don't need eyepopping graphics-hell, in thief, I DON'T WANNA SEE any! I want darkness!! I Want to sneak up on benny and whack em!

I just had to reply, and When I heard that Looking Glass was closing, I was speechless for a few moments and EXTREMELY sad for them, and mad at the same time at the way good games always get kicked in the face for making something GOOD.

(rant off)

[ 01-11-2003, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

[Animal]

System Shock 2? I seem to remember a particularly bad night with some Tequila about 8 years ago that sums that up pretty good.

Seriously, this must be a console game?

[Oblivion437]

On an additionally positive note, the Irrational team is currently analyzing the status of the System Shock license. If it's in EA's hands, a 3rd System Shock is definitely in the works, as EA would be unphased at releasing a license that has commercially failed.
EDIT: SS1 and SS2 were both PC games. SS2 may have been ported to Dreamcast, so for a total of 80 bucks, you may be able to play it there, if it made it.
Ziroc, I agree totally, dazzling graphics aren't part of Thief. But, it would be nice, then the wenkers, whiners and quakies would have NOTHING to complain about.

[ 01-11-2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Oblivion437 ]

[Sir Krustin]

Originally posted by Animal: System Shock 2? I seem to remember a particularly bad night with some Tequila about 8 years ago that sums that up pretty good. Seriously, this must be a console game?

No, it's a PC game...a good one, too - if you like a thinking game with a lot of twists and interesting puzzles, look no further. No "look for the pixel to click on" games, here.

As Z said, the only games to truly make me jump out of my seat, other than the original Doom with it's innovative sound and graphics.

Too bad it went over like a lead balloon - I never saw it on the store shelves anywhere - I had to order it in special.

EDIT>spelling

[ 01-11-2003, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Sir Krustin ]

[Ziroc]

BTW, anyone that is looking for some AWESOME Mods for the Thief Series--Quality that matches the professionals, check out www.ttlg.com (Through the Looking Glass) I love that site! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by Oblivion437: On an additionally positive note, the Irrational team is currently analyzing the status of the System Shock license. If it's in EA's hands, a 3rd System Shock is definitely in the works, as EA would be unphased at releasing a license that has commercially failed. EDIT: SS1 and SS2 were both PC games. SS2 may have been ported to Dreamcast, so for a total of 80 bucks, you may be able to play it there, if it made it. Ziroc, I agree totally, dazzling graphics aren't part of Thief. But, it would be nice, then the wenkers, whiners and quakies would have NOTHING to complain about.

I talk to a few folks at Irrational Games- really cool guys! They really want to make a sequel to System shock 2--I mean, the way it ENDED! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[dragon_lord]

I picked up SS2 for $20 (part of the EA Classic Range) - it was money well spent. Its one of the only games to actually scare me. Creeping around in a space ship with only 5 rounds left, your gun almost broken, nothing but a wrench as backup and having no idea what was around the next corner is an experience to remember. And who could forget those crazy psi monkeys. SS2 is a stand out game in sea of titles who have so little originality and thought put into them. SS2 is a true classic. It was a sad day when Looking Glass folded. I heard alot of its employees went to other local aussie developers though.

[ 01-11-2003, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: dragon_lord ]