a friend has a problem

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Timber - I could not disagree with you more completely on the issue of suicide. I admit the "threat" sounds a bit "over the top" for this situation - and it may well be just an "attention seeking" gesture. But that most definitely is NOT the case in the majority of cases. And any psychaitrist will tell you the one thing you never do is treat a suicide threat as frivolous.

Most often, the person has contemplated the idea, but hasn't totally committed to it. When they tell someone they are considering it, they are asking for help with a situation. So what if that help is just a little extra attention. If the friend "laughs and ridicules" the person...that will only alienate them and could very well push them over the edge.

I respect your opinions Timber and I'm sure you have your reasons for feeling the way you do about suicide...but I can tell you unequivocally that you are off the mark on this one. That isn't just my opinion..that's also the opinion of the "experts".

[wellard]

I'm not sure about the bank account idea. Marriage is about trust (imho)and to repay on a betrayal of trust by commiting another one does not bode well. I suggest a talking to, a LONG talking to. Explain why she was hurt and what she expects from him in the future. Also by talking she may find out what was going through his mind, why did he treat her this way, was he depressed ect.

To fight fire with fire is just a quick way to hatred and divorce.

[harleyquinn]

Originally posted by wellard: I'm not sure about the bank account idea. Marriage is about trust (imho)and to repay on a betrayal of trust by commiting another one does not bode well. I suggest a talking to, a LONG talking to. Explain why she was hurt and what she expects from him in the future. Also by talking she may find out what was going through his mind, why did he treat her this way, was he depressed ect. To fight fire with fire is just a quick way to hatred and divorce.

Wellard, I'm not suggesting fight fire with fire. I'm just suggesting that this woman protect herself. Her husband has already demonstrated that he can't be trusted with the finances, and that he's also looking around for another woman. With the way things stand right now, he can clear out the joint account and pick up with another woman and she can't do a thing about it. If she has her own account, she at least won't be broke. Any good attorney will recommend to her to do the same thing.
As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by harleyquinn: As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Or as Bush said it,
fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img]

[ 02-21-2003, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Rokenn ]

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Until I read Cerek's post, I didn't know about the suicide bit (skimmed over it). You have a moral obligation to laugh and point at anyone who discusses suicide. Giving credibility to such inane drivel only encourages someone. If you are serious about it, you'll do it, NOT discuss it. I've seen way too many losers get way too much attention in my life by simply playing the suicide card. Remember, Laugh and Point, and they'll get the point. Suicide is such a serious topic, anyone who brings it up deserves absolute ridicule.

Wow. This is such complete garbage, and dangerous garbage I can't believe it came out of your mouth!

Talking about suicide is, unsurprisingly, a warning sign. People thinking about suiciding are, by definition, desperate and while it's true that some don't talk about it and give off other signs (or not), some certainly do. The absolute worst thing you can do is laugh and ridicule! I don't know if you've heard of suicide contracts? These are a very useful and effective tool that therapists use for clients who are clearly suicidal, or have talked about committing suicide, and involve a contract where the client signs and promises not to commit suicide for a period of time (until their next session). The only way these are possible is by the therapist knowing their client is suicidal, by them talking about it. Some still do commit suicide though.

People don't 'play the suicide card'. People who are healthy and secure and happy don't consider suicide. And perhaps it's true that some people who talk about it aren't considering it completely seriously, as in, they have a plan and so on. But anyone who does mention it, IMNSHO, needs help, be that professional counselling or from their friends and family. Not ridicule. Maybe a little extra attention is all they need. So give it. If you find giving attention to people who are obviously your friends (or why would they tell you) so unpleasant, well that's your problem, not theirs.

[Aelia Jusa]

Whoops too busy ranting to consider RevRuby's friend

There seems like a few problems that I can see. First is her husband's attitude to money. I don't know how much he's making but clearly his spending means bills aren't being paid, so there's an obvious issue there. I think (if that was the only problem) they both need to sit down and discuss their finances so they know what they have to spend and what they have left over. To me at least, it seems like your friend also has some money issues, since she wants to use his paycheck for bills and her own to 'blow on herself'. Both of them need to be able to spend money on themselves, and since there's a child involved I would think there really should be a plan so the money is equitably split.

However considering the other issue of his infidelity, I agree with others who have advised a separate bank account for her money in case the worst happens. I think even if the bills and so on are in his name she is liable being married (?) if they're not paid (credit cards and so on), so to have her own finances that he can't touch might be best. I think the best thing for you to do, RevRuby, is make sure she knows you're there for her. I can see how she might consider, however fleetingly, suicide, but you have to make sure she knows she has support, and that even if her husband doesn't turn out to be good for her, her baby needs her. She wants advice, but it's understandable that you don't know exactly what she should do - she probably understands that. As long as you're accessible and she can talk to you it will help her a lot.

[Mouse]

*Moderator mode off*

Timber Loftis, I have actual experience of the situation you ridicule and I can tell you from that experiece that you are wrong. Heaven help you if you ever suffer from depression and have phone the Samaritans or a friend. By your logic, you utterly devalue the help and support given by countless people to their fellow humans in time of pain and despair. If I ever succumb to such a nihilistic and uncaring worldview, I sincerely hope there will be someone to listen to and counsel me.

*Moderator mode back on*

[Timber Loftis]

A.J., Cerek, and Mouse:

I agree with you all that suicide is VERY serious, even though at least 1 of you accused me of not feeling that way.

In fact, it is simply my opinion that it is SO serious it should be treated as taboo to even discuss doing.

I realize my take on this is radical, but I've been on both sides of the "contemplating suicide" issue - many many years ago, so please don't think I'm speaking currently.

I simply have personally known too many people who used the threat as a repeated tool to exact attention. They even ate bottles of pills, cut their stomachs, and did other things that clearly indicate they wanted the attention without the actual risk of dying. I found it to be the cheapest, most childish thing in the world. And it cost their family and friends lots of useless heartache. The only way I saw these people quit acting so childish was when we all started ignoring the cries of "wolf."

Sorry you disagree with me so vehemently, but I just can't stand it when people talk suicide. I know that when I was a young twit, anytime I mentioned it out loud I wasn't serious. When I was serious, I was always in private and I never told anyone about it. I also know that my friends who have actually done it never ever mentioned it to anyone at all and took us all by complete surprise.

Just MHO. Sorry for derailing the thread. There is a lot of good advice for RevRuby's friend to be found herein. I will try and refrain from discussing this topic on this thread again.

[ 02-21-2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Mouse]

Fair enough TL, nobody would deny you the right to hold an opinion. BTW, I just noticed, is it not suposed to be spelt as Mallory in your sig??

Anyway, lets get back on topic.

[Ronn_Bman]

Timber, I'll agree that you have the right to your opinion on the subject and actually, based on my experience will agree that, in general, those who actually want to talk about it aren't ready to do it.

At work, we have to take each one as if it's real despite the fact that we have "regulars" who are looking for attention and waste huge amounts of our resources.

The reason everyone should be treated as the real deal is because sooner of later one actually will be the real deal. Once I had a guy call, make the threat, chat for a minute, and then say "thanks". The ambulance and police were almost there, he seemed responsive to our conversation, and it seemed pretty routine, but then he pulled the trigger while I was still on the phone. Sometimes you just don't know.

[ 02-21-2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]