Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Forums > General Discussion > General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005)

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-01-2005, 03:09 PM   #21
SilentThief
Symbol of Cyric
 
Burger Time Champion
Join Date: September 10, 2001
Location: USA
Age: 47
Posts: 1,301
Quote:
Originally posted by Rikard T'Aranaxz:
I like 3rd Edition more because it gives the player much more freedom in classes and skills. i am however working on a system that can permanently eliminate the awfully artificial allignments.
Well, I always DM-ed back in tha day and I kinda followed the whole "alignment tracking chart" thingy from the Dragonlance campaign, only I didn't let players know what their alignment score was or how certain actions swayed that. This meant that the players could build quite a nasty reputaion for themselves if they weren't careful... and then wonder why they were hunted by the people

Also, I had like almost 50 different character kit/class choices from different locations in the two geographical continents I had in my campaign, and this was not counting what would have been had I continued to build the world.

SilentThief

[ 01-01-2005, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: SilentThief ]
__________________
http://www.wilhelmscream.net/
SilentThief is offline  
Old 01-01-2005, 03:48 PM   #22
Rikard T'Aranaxz
Harper
 

Join Date: July 17, 2004
Location: amsterdam
Age: 39
Posts: 4,772
Still that point system would be based on your own ethics morals and values. you cant objectively call someone evil or good. someone like hitler is seen as evil by 99.9% of the sane population of the world but still he believed himself he did a good thing by his own ethics and morals, and at that time a part of the german population agreed with him. this might be a very extreem case, but it illustrates how subjective "evil" and "good" are. We also come to a point where you'd have to decide whether or not you are still "good" if we went out and killed "evil" people (boondock saints for example, or even the death penalty). how could a spell (because thats my main issue, spells like protection from evil) determine what morals and what ethics are the correct ones? how can something so subjective be objectively measured?

[ 01-01-2005, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Rikard T'Aranaxz ]
__________________
Rikard supports signatures!
Rikard T'Aranaxz is offline  
Old 01-02-2005, 04:47 PM   #23
SilentThief
Symbol of Cyric
 
Burger Time Champion
Join Date: September 10, 2001
Location: USA
Age: 47
Posts: 1,301
that is a good point, and one I hadn't considered before. I would say then (if I were DM-ing again) that the "prot. from evil" spell then wouldn't affect, say, some thief who steals or a fighter who kills people now and then but instead might protect from stuff like undead, demons, evil artifacts (or someone possessed by one). I'm gonna have to re-think this one if I ever DM again.

You are right on the whole subjective point, that it is something that is open to widely different views and interpretations.
__________________
http://www.wilhelmscream.net/
SilentThief is offline  
Old 01-02-2005, 06:03 PM   #24
SecretMaster
Apophis
 

Join Date: October 19, 2001
Location: New York
Age: 37
Posts: 4,666
3rd edition seems much simpler to me.

THACO is completely mindboggling to me.
To hit armor class of zero. So if your THACO is 3, and an enemy armor class is -5, you need to roll an 8 or higher to hit the enemy???
SecretMaster is offline  
Old 01-02-2005, 06:10 PM   #25
Rikard T'Aranaxz
Harper
 

Join Date: July 17, 2004
Location: amsterdam
Age: 39
Posts: 4,772
... see it aint that hard [img]tongue.gif[/img]
__________________
Rikard supports signatures!
Rikard T'Aranaxz is offline  
Old 01-02-2005, 06:14 PM   #26
Rikard T'Aranaxz
Harper
 

Join Date: July 17, 2004
Location: amsterdam
Age: 39
Posts: 4,772
Quote:
Originally posted by SilentThief:
that is a good point, and one I hadn't considered before. I would say then (if I were DM-ing again) that the "prot. from evil" spell then wouldn't affect, say, some thief who steals or a fighter who kills people now and then but instead might protect from stuff like undead, demons, evil artifacts (or someone possessed by one). I'm gonna have to re-think this one if I ever DM again.

You are right on the whole subjective point, that it is something that is open to widely different views and interpretations.
the problem with the allignment system as it stands now is that paladins in a huge part depends on very strong evil/good allignments. decreasing the power of spells that depend on good and evil will greatly decrease the powers of a paladin :/
__________________
Rikard supports signatures!
Rikard T'Aranaxz is offline  
Old 01-02-2005, 08:28 PM   #27
Q'alooaith
Emerald Dragon
 

Join Date: December 10, 2003
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 961
Allignments should not be told to the players..

You as the DM should keep track of how much the players are shifting towards good or evil, they players should not pick their alignmets at the start of a champaine, but should start with a neutral rating, from their use their actions to work out if they are acting in a good way or an evil way, from your position as the all seeing one..

Prot. from Evil works by the karma, undead have bad karma (violation the natural order of the world will do that to a person).. So rather than think of it as somone deciding to put a shield aganst who they think is evil, but as the caster opening a connection to some spritual plane..

Good and evil are subjective, you the DM are not.

Back to the topic at hand..

I like 2nd edtion, but in the way people like steam engines, Nice to look back but I want to go to work on the newer one please..
__________________
-Jenn
Q'alooaith is offline  
Old 01-02-2005, 08:40 PM   #28
Sir Degrader
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: November 3, 2001
Location: Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 2,871
I like third ed. I've played both, (CRPG for 2ed, also reading through the sourcebooks). I can honestly say, 3ed kick the crap out of 2ed. I agree with Q'alooaith, alignments shouldn't be told to the players.
Sir Degrader is offline  
Old 01-02-2005, 09:04 PM   #29
LennonCook
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: November 10, 2001
Location: Bathurst & Orange, in constant flux
Age: 37
Posts: 5,452
Quote:
Originally posted by Q'alooaith:
Allignments should not be told to the players..

You as the DM should keep track of how much the players are shifting towards good or evil, they players should not pick their alignmets at the start of a champaine, but should start with a neutral rating, from their use their actions to work out if they are acting in a good way or an evil way, from your position as the all seeing one..

Prot. from Evil works by the karma, undead have bad karma (violation the natural order of the world will do that to a person).. So rather than think of it as somone deciding to put a shield aganst who they think is evil, but as the caster opening a connection to some spritual plane..

Good and evil are subjective, you the DM are not.
Exactly. Alignment is metadata: it should be defined by the character rather than defining the character. The emphasis should always be on a good story - even things like strength scores and weapon stats and even levels shouldn't be anything the player needs to know. The description of an item and the actions of the character should be adequate - if the fourth wall needs to be broken, something is wrong.

Thus, which ruleset do I prefer? Neither. In my experience, both focus too heavily on the numbers and the dice. Although this may be different in a PNP game: I have only had the experience of dnd-based computer games, of which I've yet to see a realy good implentation. I think an ideal to strive for is a cross between Quest for Glory, Neverwinter Nights and Planescape: Torment . Your alignment is adjusted automatically depending on your actions; your stats raise automatically depending on how you use them. Party members do their own thing, rather than being directly controllable by the player. But I think that the character record in these games is poorly implemented. It should idealy be a picture and the biography, nothing more. I think that hiding details such as the alignment and class from the player actually opens the way for more advanced implementations, and a more generally fun experience.
LennonCook is offline  
Old 01-03-2005, 05:25 AM   #30
Variol (Farseer) Elmwood
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: May 16, 2003
Location: Dartmouth, NS Canada
Age: 58
Posts: 5,634
We had our second day of the new champaign yesterday. I was a great gaming day, actually. Everyone was really using their characters well.
One funny part was when our Armor totin' halberd weildin' 1st lvl mage, took down an orge with one swing. The ogre had taken a bit of damage, then took a critical from the mage and failed his system shock.
__________________
A MAN WHO WANTS FOR NOTHING HAS INFINITE WEALTH. (me)
Variol (Farseer) Elmwood is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Saving Imoen preference (SPOILERS) Lord Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn & Throne of Bhaal 1 07-09-2003 11:32 PM
Party AI preference SpongeBobTheDestoyer Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn & Throne of Bhaal 15 02-21-2003 04:34 AM
2nd Edition or 3rd? Which one? Zoltan Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 Also SoU & HotU Forum 12 07-31-2002 11:17 AM
rp preference Nanobyte General Discussion 1 07-07-2002 05:47 PM
2nd edition vs 3rd edition? white heron Baldurs Gate II Archives 2 03-30-2001 06:46 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved