Wicca and Other forms of Neo Paganism

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by Mouse: I have never separated the human race and it's effects on the planet from "nature". As a philosophical concept, I believe we should accept that whatever effect we have on the future evolution of the Earth is only a small paragraph in the billion year long diary of our planets journey from creation to destruction.

In my opinion that's just trying to make excuses for the fact that humans are single-handedly devastating the evironment. Sure humans haven't been around long relative to the age of the earth, but does that mean we can just do whatever we like, however we like, even when there are better, less destructive ways to do it that don't just benefit humans?

------------------


Goddess and Sorceress of the HADB, and her sidekick Pink

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Nature worshipers usually tend to leave other people alone. We don't go around knocking on doors trying to convert people - far more likely to be making love in the long grass. I know what I like

Er.. Ecologically minded, tree-loving CHRISTIAN here.. not knocking on anyone's door or head to convert them. And I'd prefer clean sheets---grass.. tickly, stains...bugs.. hmm.. natural but icky! *snicker, giggle*


CB


------------------


Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[Mouse]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: In my opinion that's just trying to make excuses for the fact that humans are single-handedly devastating the evironment. Sure humans haven't been around long relative to the age of the earth, but does that mean we can just do whatever we like, however we like, even when there are better, less destructive ways to do it that don't just benefit humans?

My post was not an excuse. For it to be that, I would have had to express an opinion on the morality of the way the human race is affecting the biosphere it shares with the rest of life on this planet.

I deliberately refrained from making judgements as to the harm or otherwise of our actions. To do that, I would have to define concepts such as better, less destructive and I don't think my brain is quite up to that at present.

Whenever this topic comes up, I am reminded of the scf-fi short story where in the far future a classroom of intelligent cockroaches are being tutored on the extinction of the mammels and how insects came to be the dominant lifeform.

------------------
Regards



Mouse

[This message has been edited by Mouse (edited 09-28-2001).]

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Yorick: Quoted by Silver Cheetah: I must have been hanging around the wrong nature worshipers then..... The main problem I have with it is it's kind of like buying a CD and acting like the CD is the best thing in the world and disregarding the artist that made it. I decry magik/magic/witchcraft though as a perversion of the earths laws, of an individuals right to non-interferance from external forces, and the removal of hope when the future is described to them.

Um, Yorick. Worshiping nature IS worshiping the artist who made it! I don't see nature as being separate from the divine, I totally recognise it as part of the divine, holy, as are you. As am I. I believe that we are all part of god, a living, evolving, concious universe.

Not quite sure I understand that last paragraph - to be honest (I know nothing about black magic, let me just make that clear.) What you call 'magic' or 'witchcraft' is unfortunately larded with superstition and fear.

Ritual is just a way of focusing intention, to my mind, to swing some energy behind whatever it is you are trying to do. (Like developing patience, for example, or opening the heart, or achieving your life purpose, or accessing your creativity, or getting the willpower to stop smoking, or to send love and light to a friend, or an enemy for that matter.

Personally, I use what you are calling 'magic' very seldom, when I do, it's to support the process I have just described, of personal change, in one way or another.

IMHO, the energy used during ritual is very similar to that of prayer, at least IMHO. Ritual doesn't work without passion, and passion is the live energy of prayer. They are the same things.

Unfortunately, there are many people around who use these quite simple management techniques things (because that is what they are) to control and/or influence other people. (Or try to.) I firmly believe that they are for use in one's own personal development, although I do like rituals that generate energy for the greater good, and leave it to the divine as to what form that will take.


------------------


Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

I have gone back and edited the first post in this thread.

My wording might have been taken to mean that only "neo pagans" could have the necessary spiritual view of the environment. That was misleading, as it was not my meaning. I have revised the post to clear up that possible misunderstanding.

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Mouse: My post was not an excuse. For it to be that, I would have had to express an opinion on the morality of the way the human race is affecting the biosphere it shares with the rest of life on this planet. I deliberately refrained from making judgements as to the harm or otherwise of our actions. To do that, I would have to define concepts such as better, less destructive and I don't think my brain is quite up to that at present. Whenever this topic comes up, I am reminded of the scf-fi short story where in the far future a classroom of intelligent cockroaches are being tutored on the extinction of the mammels and how insects came to be the dominant lifeform.

Cop-out, cop-out, cop-out, cop-out.........

------------------


Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Um, Yorick. Worshiping nature IS worshiping the artist who made it! I don't see nature as being separate from the divine, I totally recognise it as part of the divine, holy, as are you. As am I. I believe that we are all part of god, a living, evolving, concious universe. Not quite sure I understand that last paragraph - to be honest (I know nothing about black magic, let me just make that clear.) What you call 'magic' or 'witchcraft' is unfortunately larded with superstition and fear. Ritual is just a way of focusing intention, to my mind, to swing some energy behind whatever it is you are trying to do. (Like developing patience, for example, or opening the heart, or achieving your life purpose, or accessing your creativity, or getting the willpower to stop smoking, or to send love and light to a friend, or an enemy for that matter. Personally, I use what you are calling 'magic' very seldom, when I do, it's to support the process I have just described, of personal change, in one way or another. IMHO, the energy used during ritual is very similar to that of prayer, at least IMHO. Ritual doesn't work without passion, and passion is the live energy of prayer. They are the same things. Unfortunately, there are many people around who use these quite simple and natural techniques(because that is what they are) to control and/or influence other people. (Or try to.) I firmly believe that they are for use in one's own personal development, although I do like rituals that generate energy for the greater good, and leave it to the divine as to what form that will take.

------------------


Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Um, Yorick. Worshiping nature IS worshiping the artist who made it! I don't see nature as being separate from the divine, I totally recognise it as part of the divine, holy, as are you. As am I. I believe that we are all part of god, a living, evolving, concious universe. Ritual is just a way of focusing intention, to my mind, to swing some energy behind whatever it is you are trying to do. (Like developing patience, for example, or opening the heart, or achieving your life purpose, or accessing your creativity, or getting the willpower to stop smoking, or to send love and light to a friend, or an enemy for that matter.

Well said, oh wise cheetah.

[Mouse]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Cop-out, cop-out, cop-out, cop-out.........

Elaborate at length Argent Feline I would loooove to know just exactly how my stance involves a "cop-out".


------------------
Regards



Mouse - preparing for a forensic debate (or just about to go to bed)

[This message has been edited by Mouse (edited 09-28-2001).]

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Mouse: Elaborate at length Argent Feline I would loooove to know just exactly how my stance involves a "cop-out".

Believing in a sort of animistic spirituality outwith the bounds of "established" religions. Neo pagans think they have discovered this brand new method of interacting with the essence of creation/existance. The phrase "reinventing the wheel" comes to mind......

I have never separated the human race and it's effects on the planet from "nature". As a philosophical concept, I believe we should accept that whatever effect we have on the future evolution of the Earth is only a small paragraph in the billion year long diary of our planets journey from creation to destruction.

Well, because what you seem to be saying when you say 'we should accept that whatever effect we have on the future evolution of the earth is only a small paragraph in the billion year long diary of our planet's journey from creation to destruction' - is that whatever we do doesn't matter because the race is going to die out at some point anyway.

But I'm not sure if that is what you're saying! (Grrrr..... lash tail, want something to get to grips with! That's why I'm chanting cop out at you.....)

Ooh, I just saw THE biggest spider ever.



------------------


Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us