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Old 02-27-2003, 03:27 PM   #81
WillowIX
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Join Date: July 10, 2001
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Age: 49
Posts: 4,628
Quote:
Originally posted by Moiraine:
Ah, but you are talking about your own preferences, which is totally different than assigning an absolute worth value to a human being.
I know. But that was the best answer I could give you. I have never, and I hope I never will, tried to assign any kind of worth to a human.

No, my point was not to say that all humans are "equal" - which would be setting a scale anyway - but that there is and can be NO scale on which the worth of a human being could be measured ! [img]smile.gif[/img] "All men are born free and equal in rights" states the Declaration of Human Rights. Doesn't mean you can make a boxing champion from Einstein material.
Actually that sentence wasn´t directed at you Moiraine. I noticed it posted in the first evolution thread and brought it with me from there. Ehh and reading your post I see that I might have left a word out. The correct quote I was referring to was "All men are created equal". I think I made a mistake in quoting your post. [img]smile.gif[/img] Only the first sentence was directed at you lol. The one about changing the topic. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 02-27-2003, 03:42 PM   #82
Yorick
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Join Date: January 7, 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Quote:
Originally posted by Moiraine:
Quote:
....there is and can be NO scale on which the worth of a human being could be measured ! [img]smile.gif[/img]
Speaking professionally:
- A death case is worth a base $1 mil. when figuring on settlement.
- Excessive pain and suffering can raise this substantially.
- A mutilation case can be worth more. Permanent brain damage and handicap will top the death value and be worth at least $ 5 mil.
- This is all modified by "earning potential" over the lifetime. Yes, a doctor's wife gets more money from a death case than a laborer's wife, all other things taken equally.

Assignment to the value of life is in the legal system every day. Not countering any points with this, just an FYI.
And is money the only way to measure somethings worth? A bottle of water costs less than a bottle of oil, but which is worth more to you if you're thirsty? Is 5 million dollars worth more to you than your very life itself? Would someone pay 5 million dollars to save the life of a man that raped their daughter? Would someone pay 20 million dollars to save the life of their daughter?

Assigning monetary value to life and injuries is an attempt at compensation, not a definitive measurement on the value of peoples lives.

A person can get 40 million dollars for injuring themself on the steps on the New York City library, yet someone injured defewnding America in war, only gets $250,000 or so. Are you suggesting that the unemployed thief who injures himself on the steps is worth more to America than the Marine simply because he gets more in compensation?

Additionally, you are using AMOUNTS RECEIVED, not amounts contributed. Earnings potential, not contributions potential. What of the tireless humanitarian volunteer who gives their whole life towards imporving the lives of Americas children, thus ensurig the nations future. What if they are prevented from working because of injury. The earnings they may have received may have been paltry, but what of the children robbed of brilliance love and devotion?

Is money the only way to measure worth? How much does love cost? How much is compassion per day? What about inspiration? What do I pay to get that? Hope? Is hope rising in value? Trust? Self esteem? Has the value of self esteem plummetted bacause someone flooded the market?
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Old 02-27-2003, 03:53 PM   #83
Timber Loftis
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I'm not defending it, Yorick. I am merely stating that monetary values are assigned to life itself. Doesn't that usurp the notion that society holds by the "ideal" that life is sacrosanct and worth more than any amount of money?

Please don't ask me to defend this. I'd do it as a devil's advocate just because I have counterargument distress disorder.

But, I don't want to. I don't feel it's fair or accurate. Especially considering that even the "idealistic" companies who hate corporate executive greed, take Ben & Jerry's for instance, still pay their CEO $500 million per year. Or considering that a big hollywood star gets $20 million to make a movie. Or considering that Michael Jordan has earned more money from Nike that all total Nike employess in Asia where all Nike shoes are made - including those who died in that sweat-shop fire a few years back.
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Old 02-27-2003, 04:04 PM   #84
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
I'm not defending it, Yorick. I am merely stating that monetary values are assigned to life itself. Doesn't that usurp the notion that society holds by the "ideal" that life is sacrosanct and worth more than any amount of money?
No. It's an attempt to give some sort of consolation to victims.
Or it represents one part of society, not society as a whole.
Or it represents one section of one nations societies values, not values of humankind. I'm sure there are other societies which have less a value of human life. [img]smile.gif[/img] And others with more. Just as there are individuals who value their own life more than others.

[ 02-27-2003, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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Old 02-27-2003, 04:36 PM   #85
Timber Loftis
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Actually, quite technically Yorick, you are grouping all the damages under only the "Loss of Income" and "Loss of Consortium" portions of the lawsuit. Part of those damages are awarded to the Estate, i.e. the injured person, to pay for his pain and suffering and wrongful death. So, while society may view it the way you mention, the law certainly views the $1 mil. + pain and suffering as the value of the life itself.
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Old 02-27-2003, 06:35 PM   #86
John D Harris
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Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 3,577
Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
[QB} You have relative betters in specific areas. So one person can lift a heavier weight than you. That makes them able to lift more weigth than you. That doesn't give them more endurance, greater pain threshold, more inner strength, greater commitment more trustworthiness or anything else unless you also meaasure those too. Some of those things can't be measured unless you're around them all the time over a number of years.

Thus, you have to assume that though you may be better in one area than the next person, they will be better than you in a different area. We all have strengths and weaknesses - whether they are developed to their fullest potential is a different story.[/QB]
I assume that none are better or worse then me, as far as I can tell we all put our pants on the same way, one leg at a time. I contend that skills, strengths, weaknesses, or any attributes whatso ever that we as Humans can measure only make us worth anything, of value to fellow humans. As we humans percieve value. But that is not the worth of a human, the worth of a human was decided nearly 2,000 years ago outside of Jerusalem.

After reading my earlier reply to you Miss Moiraine Ma'am, I must aplogize for forgeting to address you will the proper Miss & Ma'am.
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:14 PM   #87
Cerek the Barbaric
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Join Date: October 29, 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by John D Harris:
I assume that none are better or worse then me, as far as I can tell we all put our pants on the same way, one leg at a time.
I once tried to put my pants on two legs at a time. I received a lot of pain and suffering for my effort but no compensation even though my "quality of life" was adversely affected for a short period of time. [img]graemlins/crying.gif[/img]
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Old 02-28-2003, 04:30 AM   #88
Moiraine
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Up in the Freedomland Alps
Age: 59
Posts: 2,474
Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
I'm not defending it, Yorick. I am merely stating that monetary values are assigned to life itself. Doesn't that usurp the notion that society holds by the "ideal" that life is sacrosanct and worth more than any amount of money?
But Timber, what can lawyers do when a widow tells them to get that money back and give her back her husband instead ?

Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
But, I don't want to. I don't feel it's fair or accurate. Especially considering that even the "idealistic" companies who hate corporate executive greed, take Ben & Jerry's for instance, still pay their CEO $500 million per year. Or considering that a big hollywood star gets $20 million to make a movie. Or considering that Michael Jordan has earned more money from Nike that all total Nike employess in Asia where all Nike shoes are made - including those who died in that sweat-shop fire a few years back.
Ya-hah. But what is an actor worth if there is no public to watch him/her ?

[ 02-28-2003, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: Moiraine ]
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