Question about dual-classing.

[Greystone]

My question concerns changing from a magic-user class to the corresponding fighter class (example: alchemist to ninja, priest to lord/valkyrie, etc). If you work the magic-user up in skill (to become fairly powerful spell-slinger), then convert to the corresponding fighting class, does this seriously impair the character's spell-casting ability? If so, will the character become as powerful as the pure magic user again, with time/skills/levels?

An example of this would be getting an alchemist up to a very powerful skill level, so that he has most of the powerful spells, then converting him into a ninja. Would he still be able to cast the spells as effectively as when he was an alchemist?

Thanks in advance for the assistance!

--Greystone

[Gimli]

I think the only thing you'd lose would be the 25% skill bonus that the pure class had, and you'll never get that back, so you would not be as effective. unless you switched where the skill as a pure caster, counting the bonus, was under 100, as you can get it up to 100 with hybrids.

[Oruboris]

I tried this, too, but gave it up as a bad idea. First, the pure casters start out with almost no hit points: often under 10, and will always be WAY behind where they would be beginning as ninjas, etc.

Second, while I don't think their ability to cast once they switch is much effected [except for as Gimli notes], the hybrids get no spell picks for a very long time, and even then learn spells much slower than pure casters.

Theres also the problem of leveling: the levels get breathtakingly far apart after 20 or so. If this game had as huge an environment as W7 or Daggerfall, wouldn't be a problem. You could play for 6 months and create a truely potent hybrid with all spells in the appropriate spell book, but in this game you'd end up patroling the swamp or arnika road endlessly just to gain exp.-- not really fun, at least for me...

Oru

[otter]

Five levels isn't such a long time, unless you wait to L10 or more to make the switch. Then hybrids get spell picks once a level, just like pures, or from any spellbook, so once you get picks again, you're not slower.
If you play with a smaller group, and hang out in the Rift or MW instead of Swamp or AR, you can get past L20 really fast.
I still start hybrids as hybrids.
The only class-changes that i make these days, aside from that early level for stealth, is Bard to Fighter. I usually do it at L11, because i'm not as concerned about offensive magic from this char. (Bishop with Powercast outstrips Bard, and i use the Bard mostly to have more than one first-round buff caster.) This is really nice with a 3 or 4-member party--sing up a couple of buffs and then run in and berzerk with X-Cal.
Makes a great solo, too, just get PP and L&T up with Stealth and Shield during your level as Rogue. The big lack here would be no Alc to make potion money with, have to live in the PP patch. But there's only one char to equip, not so bad...

[el_kalkylus]

Yeah, you will have to wait 4 levels until you get the spellbook back again. I personally think that 4 levels is alot, but I know others don't think so at all. It depends how fast you play.

Don't neglect the power of hybrids though. There are some very powerful weapons/items just for hybrids.

I never start with hybrids as hybrids, because they have 0 magic skills! It takes ALOT of time to get the skills to decent level, at least for me, because there are some areas in the game when I don't really want to waste time casting weak spells (often red) that have a chance of backfiring. I don't want to sit around and "train" the skills either, so it's easier to start with a pure caster for some levels.

It's important to imagine how you want your hybrid. Do you want the hybrid to be a true fighter, then you can forget about powerful magic. If you want powerful magic, then you can forget about powerful fighting.

An example: At one of my games, I chose to have a magic heavy samurai, later wielding zatoichi bo and using infinity helmet. At level 17 she had 56 powercast, 59 staff&wand, 56 close combat, 83 wizardry and 36-53 magic skills. With 97 strength, she hit pretty hard. She was a decent fighter and quite good magic caster. It was nice to have her able to adapt to the situations. That's the beauty about hybrids.

[otter]

I used to build Speed and Dex first in most of my hybrids, then either Strength or Int, and Vit or Pi, depending on whether i wanted Magic or Combat.
But that Attributes testing thread kinda changes how i'm developing my last 3 starts. Because Int has been shown to help only with learning, and not with the actual use, any of the skills it's listed as controlling, and Powercast doesn't do much, so you can boost Dex and Str instead, and then maybe for initiative Spd; to-hit, Sen; and for Mana, Pie. And of course, there's no debating Vit for more HP.
I had an imaginary conversation with my characters:
me: So, how'dya like to be harder to hit?
ALL: Yeah, great, where do we sign up? What's it cost?
me: It'll cost ya one level! And your dignity!
ALL: What, for +10 AC we got dignity?
Moral: Practise still makes better faster.

[ 06-18-2002, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: otter ]

[Wolfie]

One thing I'd point out is, to call it "dual-classing" will confuse players familar with the D&D concept of having two classes at the same time, each gaining 50% of the earnt XP. Wizardry 8 uses more a profession CHANGING system, you are one profession, then become another, having all the skills of the previous profession, but unable to gain further skill in the previous profession and any special bonuses of that profession (unless you change back to that profession later which can be done).

Here's an article that discusses spell learning and covers how this is handled for profession-changed characters.

Enjoy!

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-20-2002, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Wolfie ]