Is circumcision abuse of children?

[wellard]

Is circumcision abuse of children?

Lets all understand that religion is a banned topic so lets be aware of that please. Also if any mod finds the title or subject uncomfortable feel free to delete, modify or lock with no worries.


Circumcision is abuse. If I held down a child and cut its fingernail off, I’d be done for abuse so what’s the difference? Why abuse your child because of the “I had it done so should my child” mantra. Or because it’s fashionable or worse still, “it is my religious right to do so!” And if there is religious ground for performing this procedure in the New Testament please PM me the reference. (Lets keep away from posting on banned topics) but in the end it is mutilation plain and simple IMO

Yes to circumcise is to mutilate! You may dress it up in fancy excuses, even the most insulting “its cleaner” don’t you teach your child to wash thoroughly and often? Don’t you maintain it to the highest standard of hygiene? Now there may be a medical reason that presents itself and the parents may have no other choice but to have this carried out. But what gives doctors or others the right to carry out a premptive procedure? Has anyone ever been prosecuted in the USA or elsewhere (I believe Circumsion to be very prevalent in the USA) for child abuse mutilation?

There is a large and vocal ‘right to life’ movement in some countries. They shout about the right of unborn children, does this stop once a child is born? Does the child not have any rights to grow as nature intended? An informed choice for some reasons may be fine when you are an adult, but what gives us the right to slice a innocent baby?

Also if you do believe in Circumsion, is that just for boys or do you agree it should be for girls to? If someone next door were about to circumcise a girl would you not call the police? Or is that somehow philosophically different? To abuse one sex but not the other?

[Harkoliar]

well circumcision for men i would say would be better when they are small. circumcision of men on adults is just downright painful, at least when your a baby you wont remember a thing. thats what i think anyway. about right for babies, well since its scientifically proven the circumcision for males makes them better off, then i say its the parents right to do it since its the same as the parents right to give your children shots or make them take a bath. we know what is right since the child is still to young to take care of himself.

now for women.. its another matter. i dont support it at all.

[Stormymystic]

this was one of my debates when having my son circumsized, but my mother and doctors pointed out that a child who is not circumsized tends to have more infection in the skin, as my father does, and if not properly taken care of when older, it can cause more problems, my son had his down while he was under going a surgery, to make it less painful on him, he does not even notice it

[wellard]

Originally posted by Harkoliar: well circumcision for men i would say would be better when they are small. circumcision of men on adults is just downright painful, at least when your a baby you wont remember a thing. thats what i think anyway. about right for babies, well since its scientifically proven the circumcision for males makes them better off, then i say its the parents right to do it since its the same as the parents right to give your children shots or make them take a bath. we know what is right since the child is still to young to take care of himself. now for women.. its another matter. i dont support it at all.

G'day Harks

"well since its scientifically proven the circumcision for males makes them better off"

How? Why?
If there is a medical reason then you carry out the procedure. You do not do pre-emptive surgery, this is an excuse. You do not take the tonsils out of a baby without reason nor any other surgery. It's just a lame excuse to perpetuate cruelty.

[Cloudbringer]

Just wondering what brings this up, Wellard. you seem a little heated up over the subject. Has something happened, or did the subject just come up and you wanted to discuss it? No problems with doing so, btw, as long as it doesn't become a religious debate, as you already mentioned. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I personally can't say, having never had to make the decision for a baby, but I've seen both pro and con arguments (and those were without religious issues).

I've seen the 'it's mutilation' version and the 'it keeps them from lots of infections' side as well. I honestly don't know what I'd do if faced with the choice. I'm only personally familiar with the circumcised version, so I'd have to learn how to keep a baby properly clean if he wasn't circumcised.

[ 06-07-2004, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[dplax]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Just wondering what brings this up

Probably Arvon's joke about the rabbi and the IRS.

[Dirty Meg]

Originally posted by Harkoliar: its scientifically proven the circumcision for males makes them better off now for women.. its another matter. i dont support it at all.

If men were better off without foreskin then they wouldn't have it. They must have evolved for a reason (foreskins I mean, not men [img]smile.gif[/img] ). The only reason you accept the questionable practise of genital mutilation of young boys, and not of girls, is that it is more widely practised in your culture.

[ 06-07-2004, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Dirty Meg ]

[Timber Loftis]

You may dress it up in fancy excuses, even the most insulting “its cleaner”

Well, as Stormy chimed in, this is just true.

You don't have a problem with cutting the umbelical cord, do you? In the "state of nature" it was left to rot off.

I'll tell you this -- if I weren't circumcised, the first time I saw the difference I'd run straight to the doctor to get it done.

Look, parents make health choices for their children. If your kid is born with useless legs, it will be your choice whether or not to amputate the legs -- and the doctors will likely advise doing so to allow prosthetics to be attached.

[RevRuby]

i have heard a lot as well. since all 3 of my children we did not know positively were girls until they were born, i had to look into it.

my husband told me it is stil a cevenant with god, but i found a place in the nt where is says it is not necessary anymore. so as far as religion goes, on the christian side of it all religion is kinda null and void.

some get it done because all the men in the family have had it done. same reason some don't get it done.

i plan on it, with how i feel now, to have it done when i have a son. they have proven however that the pain is a memory! even in newborns. but they do have ways to numb it, and block the pain. i plan to make sure it is done. but since i will not have a son for at least 3 years i cannot at this time correctly determine how i will feel then.

i do know tho that uncircumsized requires more attention to cleaning and i am sorry to say but with my busy life the kids don't get a whole lot of baths. and if i have a son with eczema like carol i would need to avoid frequent baths for him.

either way i know nathan would like his son circumsized.

[Jaradu]

Anyone know some official facts about why circumcision is healthier? No opinions. In England only about half of males are circumcised, whereas in America AFAIK it's not common to not be. Personally, I have not had it done to me and I do not wish it to because I see no reason why I should.

And yes, I think it is abuse. The child is too young to say whether or not he wants it done.