Islam: The Religion of Peace

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by Yorick: Unless you're not of that faith. Sorry Fred, but when I think of Islam, I think of violent invasions in 600AD that wiped out civilisation after civilisation, not in the name of money - as was the case with European conquest, but in the name of Allah. The root cause of the problem is that in the Qur'an you will not find any assurance of salvation outside MARTYRDOM. That is a terrible reality. Not even Muhammad the exemplar of Islam knew whether he was going to heaven or hell. Mind you Muhammad the exemplar of Islam invaded, killed and destroyed human lives. Jesus, ordered his followers to put down their swords when he was being knowingly led away to be tried, tortured and killed. Big dif. No other religion of the world offers Martyrdom as an assurance of salvation like Isalm does. It's a sad reality. Wish it were not so. A British Muslim who does not go to war has rationalised the elements of the Qu'ran that chide and belittle the person who stays at home instead of fighting. I'm sure they are peace loving British who care more about the cricket, but they have a rationalised interpretation of the Qu'ran. A Jew who has a rationalised interpretation of the Torah, mayh decide to eat pork, lose the hat, shave the beard and get a haircut, and play sport on the sabbath. A Christian who has a rationalised interpretation of the New Testament may be homosexual, preach with long hair, or be part of a coup d'etat. There are not quite the same implications for literal fundamentalism with all the various faiths. [img]smile.gif[/img] Take it easy mate. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Uh, I will have to buy and read the Coran before I make up my mind - for when I think of Islam, I think of all the poetry and culture and science that the Muslims created during Europe's middle-age ...


And let's not forget the Crusades either ...

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Sir Krustin: Also, many people here are arguing from a western perspective, and believe that everyone thinks the same way they do. Easterners in general, and muslims in particular, just don't think like us with our judeo-christian society influencing us.

Very, very true. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Uh, I will have to buy and read the Coran before I make up my mind - for when I think of Islam, I think of all the poetry and culture and science that the Muslims created during Europe's middle-age ... And let's not forget the Crusades either ...

Well sure, poetry, science and culture are just that - part of a culture.
Christianity has things like that too. Things like Handel's Messiah, the Cathedral of Notre Dame, Paris, etc etc etc

I'm talking the Islamic FAITH. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Let's not forget that if Islam had destroyed Coptic and Greek Egypt, the Assyrians, New Carthage, and the Eastern Empire, or subjegated Spain as a conquered province for 800 YEARS, not to mention Israel, the crusades would not have happened. Let's not forget that just before the crusades, France itself was being invaded as was Austria, by the Euro-culture displacing Islamic hordes.

Fear was a huge motivating factor. Religion was used as a means of motivating the populace. The Holy land a way of taking the fight into the Heart of Islamic territory.

This is why many in the Arab world see the crusades as STILL GOING. Are the alliances of America and Britain, Australia, France, Germany etc really different from the alliances between England, France, Prussia and Austria back then?

When Bush uses 'Christian rhetoric' do we for one instant presume he is invading Iraq for religious reasons? C'mon! Christianity does not need to invade anywhere.

Genuine Christianity actually thrives as a minority faith under persecution. That is how it initially grew. It is dilutedly weakest when it is part of the governemental process, and no difference can be made between Judeo-Christian ideals, and the culture of the day.

[ 12-21-2002, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[skywalker]

Originally posted by Yorick: When Bush uses 'Christian rhetoric' do we for one instant presume he is invading Iraq for religious reasons? C'mon! Christianity does not need to invade anywhere.

No, we presume he is being ignorant of what he actually saying. That type of rhetoric is dangerous and insulting to people of many faiths. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Mark

Originally posted by skywalker: No, we presume he is being ignorant of what he actually saying. That type of rhetoric is dangerous and insulting to people of many faiths. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Mark

Thank you for my daily ration of Bush Bashing....got it out of your system yet?

[skywalker]

Never, MagiK. At least not until (hopefully) 2004.

Mark

What will you do in 2004 if he wins again? continue your complaints? Don't suppose you might admit that you are in the minority and might be wrong about him?

[skywalker]

Admit I'm wrong about him? Nah...I doubt it. But what does it matter what I think anyway. I'm just your average American nobody!

Mark

[EDIT] BTW I apologize to Sir Krustin for derailing this thread. And I'll stop derailing right now...O.K.? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 12-21-2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: skywalker ]

[Sir Krustin]

Originally posted by skywalker: [EDIT] BTW I apologize to Sir Krustin for derailing this thread. And I'll stop derailing right now...O.K.? [img]smile.gif[/img]

It's all good - as long as someones getting something out of it!

[Chewbacca]

http://islampeace.org/humanrights.html

Islam has also laid down certain rights for non-Muslims who may be living within the boundaries of an Islamic state and these rights necessarily form part of the Islamic constitution. In Islamic terminology, such non-Muslims are called dhimmis (the covenanted), implying that the Islamic state has entered into a covenant with them and guaranteed their protection. The life, property and honour of a dhimmis is to be respected and protected in exactly the same way as that of a Muslim citizen. Nor is there difference between a Muslim and a non-Muslim citizen in respect of civil or criminal law. The Islamic state may not interfere with the personal rights of non-Muslims, who have full freedom of conscience and belief and are at liberty to perform their religious rites and ceremonies in their own way. Not only may they propagate their religion, they are even entitled to criticize Islam within the limits laid down by law and decency. These rights are irrevocable. Non-Muslims cannot be deprived of them unless they renounce the covenant which grants them citizenship. However much a non-Muslim state may oppress its Muslim citizens it is not permissible for an Islamic state to retaliate against its non-Muslim subjects; even if all the Muslims outside the boundaries of an Islamic state are massacred, that state may not unjustly shed the blood of a single non-Muslim citizen living within its boundaries.

I'm still waiting for a Muslim to speak for themselves, but there seems to be plenty of information about Islam on the internet to fill the void. They may not be posting because of the negative and harsh tone that has been flung around here concerning Islam. I know Ironworks is the kind of forum that frowns upon discrimination and disrespesct of differing religions, races, ect. I would hate to think that someone would avoid posting because they feel "pre-judged" or singled out.

It is apparent that Islam, like Christianity may be interpreted as violent across history, but those that practice it as violent are an extreme minority. I think arguing over who was violent first or the longest is pointless.
In both cases, violence is rooted in the human interpretation and/or supposition of the spirit behind seeking communion with the divine.
It's all humanity's fault!

Besides, from what I have studied, a Muslim is Allah's representative in the flesh. It behooves them to have qualities of moral character (kind, merciful, compassionate) and to seek justice for wrong-doing.