Confused about spell power level and realm skill

[KraGorn]

Ever since he reached level 5 and got spell ability I've put 3 points into Alchemy for my ranger, even though I gave him only a couple of spells so far. His Alchemy skill is now 40, with one or 2 points in the realms, but his Cure Wounds still shows power level 1 in yellow.

Since his school score is 40 and realm score 1 surely that means he should be in the gree for at least level 1 and probably 2 as well.

What don't I understand here?

[Jem]

quote:

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Originally posted by KraGorn:
Since his school score is 40 and realm score 1 surely that means he should be in the gree for at least level 1 and probably 2 as well.

What don't I understand here?

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School score has no real bearing on his skill in casting the spell in spite of what it seems to indicate (at least, not that I have seen) -- it just determines what spells you have available to you. You have to build up his realm score above a 1 to get his score into the green even for level one spells.

I don't know that anyone has done a breakdown on how high your realm level has to be in order to get a green but since the realm score is 1-100, I'd be willing to bet you need at least a 10 in Divine to do it. Since we're talking a 'heal wounds' spell here, just go ahead and cast it -- the higher the better since even fizzles will help build your realm skill. Just make sure you don't do it in combat or on someone you could kill if it backfires and takes points away.

[Erydian]

I don't have an exact breakdown, but your realm skills affect your spell points, and that is a factor in what spell levels you can cast (I'm talking about Air, Earth, Fire, Water). How many spell points you have in each realm directly affects what power levels you can cast.

You'll need to raise your realm skills in order to increase your spellpoints, and thereby cast higher powered spells. As Jem suggests, you can do this by casting the spell in question, and in my experience, the higher the power you attempt to cast (the redder the better), the faster your skill improves. I wouldn't bother putting too many level up points into the individual realms - they will raise on their own rather quickly with frequent use.

[KraGorn]

Erm, I'm confused [img]smile.gif[/img]

If what you two say is true, and I wouldn't doubt it, then just what does the spellbook skill control? If the power of spells is dictated by the realm score, eg. fire, just what does Wizardry and the others do?

[Rokenn]

The spell book skills control what level spells you can learn. Basicly to learn a spell you have to be high enough level and have the skill level, if you are lacking either you can not learn the spell. Here is a short breakdown (I think the full info is another thread, not sure which one):
1) Minimum Level requirement:
Pure Caster Classes: Mage, Priest, Psionic, Alchemist, Bishop
Hybrid Caster Classes: Monk, Ninja, Ranger, Samurai, Lord, Valkyrie
Spell Level .... Min. Class Level
................. PURE .. HYBRID
1 ................ 1 ....... 5
2 ................ 3 ....... 7
3 ................ 5 ....... 9
4 ................ 8 ...... 12
5 ............... 11 ...... 15
6 ............... 14 ...... 18
7 ............... 18 ...... 22

2) Minimum Skill Requirement
To calculate your effective skill level for a given spell:
* Take your highest spellbook skill (Wizardry, Divinity, Psionics, Alchemy) that the spell in question appears in. Important for bishops or class-changed characters, since many spells appear in multiple books.
* Add 10% of your *natural* skill in that spell's realm. This doesn't include temporary skill bonuses such as those from iems.
Spell Level ..... Min. Effective Skill Level
1 .................. 0
2 .................. 15
3 .................. 30
4 .................. 45
5 .................. 60
6 .................. 75
7 .................. 90

Hope that helps.

[Jem]

quote:

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Originally posted by KraGorn:
If what you two say is true, and I wouldn't doubt it, then just what does the spellbook skill control? If the power of spells is dictated by the realm score, eg. fire, just what does Wizardry and the others do?

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It controls what spells you have access to. If you played Wiz 7, they didn't have the Realm skill -- just the four basics and depending on how high your skill was it gave you access to certain spells. The all-area spells used to only be available when you hit 96 or so. Anything below that was a single-group only. I much prefer the way they've changed those now.

So now you need the School skill to get access to a particular spell and then the realm skill to cast it successfully. For example - you need a 45 in Alchemy - or its equiv with the 10% rule - to learn any Lvl 4 Alchemy spell. But in order to cast that spell with any degree of expertise, you need a decent skill in that realm.

Like you can't count on successfully casting the Acid Bomb spell with just 20 points in the Water realm. You might be able to count on a 1 or 2 die casting, but if you want the 6 and 7 die casting you need at least a 50 to be able to give it any real continuing chance of success.

And just a note: With 90+ in all of my realms by the end of the game and 90+ in my two Bishops' chosen schools (Wiz/Div, Alc/Psi), I was still backfiring spells about every fourth or fifth combat even when they showed as all green.

[Erydian]

I didn't mean to say that realms are the ONLY source of spellpoints, because I'm pretty sure they're not. You get SP from PIE, for instance, and the spellbook skill does contribute (you'll notice this if you watch your SPs in a particular realm as your skills increase), I just think that your realms contribute more (or at least it certainly seems so). I believe if you right click on any of the individual realms, the description provided even says something about the skill affecting your capability of casting higher powered spells.

Spellbook points however, contribute immensely towards your effective spellcasting skill (which factors into when you get next level spells).

Your effective spellcasting skill is calculated by combining whatever your spellbook skill is, and 10% of whatever individual realm is relevant. For instance, if you have a 40 Alchemy skill, and a 10 in the water realm, your effective spellcasting skill for an Alchemy/Water spell would be 41.

That number, in addition to your character's level controls when you get next level spells. There is a minimum level requirement, and minimum skill requirement for each level of spells, and they only become available when you meet both requirements.

Now I just hope that all made sense. [img]smile.gif[/img]