A terrible way for a man to die. (Newspaper story) - Page 3

John D Harris · 03-09-2002, 04:21 PM

One of the purposes of any Govt is to punish people that have conmitted crimes, by the standards that said Govt has set-up. In Texas murder-one is punishable by life in prison or the death penalty.
Those may not be the standards in which you Govt has set-up, but that is your business not Texas's business. The death penalty is called punishment, it is not revenge, it is not 2 wrongs, it is not vengance, it IS punishment. A punishment that is decided by the majority of citizens(in the case of a free democratic society).

Attalus · 03-09-2002, 04:57 PM

Barry, society kills people all of the time. When a Policeman shoots someone, that is Society killing an individual. We have courts and juries to decide what does and does not merit punishment, and I think that death should be one of them. What can you say to a family when a murderer has been released and then kills again? One thing you can say about an executed felon is that he or she will never do anything to anyone again. I don't deny that there have been miscarriages of justice. That's why I think that it should be restricted. But I would never relinquish the option. A celebrated case here in Texas is a mother that murdered (one might say executed) her five children. I think that she should not be executed, because she is not a threat to anyone. Anyway, my opinion.

DarkAngel · 03-09-2002, 05:22 PM

jesus that inhumane bitch . maybe sum chinese torure would suit her. or maybe if sum one put her head in a clamp and twisted untill her eyes pop out. thats the least she deserves.

Lavindathar · 03-10-2002, 09:40 AM

No-one in this life has the power to give death.

Not her. Not you.

She is a sick-minded individual, who should go to prison for life. (As she's a yank, I guess she'll get the chair/injection??). Life imprisonment should be where it is at. She was a nurse. She was mentally stable ( i think), so she couldn't plead insanity.

She should go down for life, and regret every moment. Rather than giving death, you should let her consume herself with her own guilt. She should rot from the inside out, for years to come. But still, she might not have learnt her lesson.Until the day she dies. And the moment, jsut before she shuts her eyes, she will whisper to herself "why?".

That is punishment.

Talthyr Malkaviel · 03-10-2002, 09:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DarkAngel:
jesus that inhumane bitch . maybe sum chinese torure would suit her. or maybe if sum one put her head in a clamp and twisted untill her eyes pop out. thats the least she deserves.

Yeah, but don't you see that then you would be commiting the exact same wrong as she did, in fact, that would be done more intently.
Barry, what you wrote is the main reason I am against Capital punishment like I said in my last post (wow... me agreeing with Barry, big change there

)
Apart from the part abouyt a higher decision as you are Christian and I am not, I agree that by giving the death sentence it is no better than plain murder... no matter what they did.

John D Harris · 03-10-2002, 10:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Lavindathar:
No-one in this life has the power to give death.

Not her. Not you.

She is a sick-minded individual, who should go to prison for life. (As she's a yank, I guess she'll get the chair/injection??). Life imprisonment should be where it is at. She was a nurse. She was mentally stable ( i think), so she couldn't plead insanity.

She should go down for life, and regret every moment. Rather than giving death, you should let her consume herself with her own guilt. She should rot from the inside out, for years to come. But still, she might not have learnt her lesson.Until the day she dies. And the moment, jsut before she shuts her eyes, she will whisper to herself "why?".

That is punishment.

Lavindathar, This is where we part company, EACH and every one of us has the power to kill another human. If that was not true there would be NO murders, no wars, no accidental deaths. The sooner we as human realize that, and the responsiblity that goes along with that power the better off we humans will be.

As for her punishment I don't care what the State of Texas does, it is the State of Texas's business. I nor anyone on this board who is not a registered voter of Tarant county(that is the right county?) will ever get to serve on the jury.

Her guilt, her feelings of guilt? She watched a man bleed to death for THREE DAYS, heard his pleas for help. Then got friends to dispose of the body. SHE feels very little if any guilt, She feels sorry she got caught. She hit the man while drunk and high on drugs, then when she straightened up she sat there and watched this man die! She was worried about her own rear-end not about doing what was right, decent, the human thing to do. For three nights she slept while a man bleed to death in her garage.

Talthyr Malkaviel · 03-10-2002, 10:33 AM

Yes, everyone has the power to murder John, but they don't have the right to, I think that's what he meant.

John D Harris · 03-10-2002, 12:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel:
Yes, everyone has the power to murder John, but they don't have the right to, I think that's what he meant.

Talthyr Malkaviel,
The word "right" brings up some interesting questions.
1) What Rights do we as Humans Have?
2) Where do these rights come from? Are they just bestoded on us beacause we are born?
3) Who says that these are the Rights we have?
4) What gives them the aurthority to say these are the Rights we have?
5) What if someone disagrees with those Rights?

Talthyr Malkaviel · 03-10-2002, 01:09 PM

No one has the authority to give us those rights, we have the right to have rights without needing authority to have rights to rights

Seriosly though, I'd love to talk about rights and what should happen in certain hypothetical situations, but I don't want to get off topic.
Unless I have the right to go off topic [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Barry the Sprout · 03-10-2002, 05:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by John D Harris:

Talthyr Malkaviel,
The word "right" brings up some interesting questions.
1) What Rights do we as Humans Have?
2) Where do these rights come from? Are they just bestoded on us beacause we are born?
3) Who says that these are the Rights we have?
4) What gives them the aurthority to say these are the Rights we have?
5) What if someone disagrees with those Rights?

Actually John D this is one area where I think I partially agree with you. Human Rights are an essantially social concept - they do not exist independant of humans in a society I mean. They are not, as far as I am concerned, a pre-determined condition. So in some ways they can't really be considered inalienable, but in my mind they are simply things that people should have the right to anyway. I think that people should have the right to life under all circumstances, however I do not consider that any kind of pre-set condition on society. I merely think it is the best way to run a society,and the only way I could run one morally. Basically, I can't think of any way in which I could justify killing another person. It won't make anything better and I don't think it is a judgement we are able to make. I understand though, as Talthyr said, that a lot of people don't agree with me on that.

03-09-2002, 04:21 PM	#21
John D Harris Ninja Storm Shadow Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Northport,Alabama, USA Age: 62 Posts: 3,577	One of the purposes of any Govt is to punish people that have conmitted crimes, by the standards that said Govt has set-up. In Texas murder-one is punishable by life in prison or the death penalty. Those may not be the standards in which you Govt has set-up, but that is your business not Texas's business. The death penalty is called punishment, it is not revenge, it is not 2 wrongs, it is not vengance, it IS punishment. A punishment that is decided by the majority of citizens(in the case of a free democratic society). __________________ Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts

03-09-2002, 04:57 PM	#22
Attalus Symbol of Bane Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Texas Age: 75 Posts: 8,167	Barry, society kills people all of the time. When a Policeman shoots someone, that is Society killing an individual. We have courts and juries to decide what does and does not merit punishment, and I think that death should be one of them. What can you say to a family when a murderer has been released and then kills again? One thing you can say about an executed felon is that he or she will never do anything to anyone again. I don't deny that there have been miscarriages of justice. That's why I think that it should be restricted. But I would never relinquish the option. A celebrated case here in Texas is a mother that murdered (one might say executed) her five children. I think that she should not be executed, because she is not a threat to anyone. Anyway, my opinion. __________________ Even Heroes sometimes fail...

03-09-2002, 05:22 PM	#23
DarkAngel Manshoon Join Date: March 9, 2002 Location: darkness Age: 36 Posts: 196	jesus that inhumane bitch . maybe sum chinese torure would suit her. or maybe if sum one put her head in a clamp and twisted untill her eyes pop out. thats the least she deserves. __________________ the greatest flaw in the whole of the universe is time itself

03-10-2002, 09:40 AM	#24
Lavindathar Harper Join Date: March 21, 2001 Location: Lancs, England Age: 39 Posts: 4,729	No-one in this life has the power to give death. Not her. Not you. She is a sick-minded individual, who should go to prison for life. (As she's a yank, I guess she'll get the chair/injection??). Life imprisonment should be where it is at. She was a nurse. She was mentally stable ( i think), so she couldn't plead insanity. She should go down for life, and regret every moment. Rather than giving death, you should let her consume herself with her own guilt. She should rot from the inside out, for years to come. But still, she might not have learnt her lesson.Until the day she dies. And the moment, jsut before she shuts her eyes, she will whisper to herself "why?". That is punishment. __________________ =@

03-10-2002, 09:57 AM	#25
Talthyr Malkaviel Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: Land of the Britons Age: 37 Posts: 3,224	quote: Originally posted by DarkAngel: jesus that inhumane bitch . maybe sum chinese torure would suit her. or maybe if sum one put her head in a clamp and twisted untill her eyes pop out. thats the least she deserves. Yeah, but don't you see that then you would be commiting the exact same wrong as she did, in fact, that would be done more intently. Barry, what you wrote is the main reason I am against Capital punishment like I said in my last post (wow... me agreeing with Barry, big change there ) Apart from the part abouyt a higher decision as you are Christian and I am not, I agree that by giving the death sentence it is no better than plain murder... no matter what they did. __________________ Resident cantankerous sorcerer of the Clan HADB<br />and Sorcerous Nuttella salesman of the O.R.T<br /> <br /><br />Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny! Can I drill you about this?

03-10-2002, 10:27 AM	#26
John D Harris Ninja Storm Shadow Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Northport,Alabama, USA Age: 62 Posts: 3,577	quote: Originally posted by Lavindathar: No-one in this life has the power to give death. Not her. Not you. She is a sick-minded individual, who should go to prison for life. (As she's a yank, I guess she'll get the chair/injection??). Life imprisonment should be where it is at. She was a nurse. She was mentally stable ( i think), so she couldn't plead insanity. She should go down for life, and regret every moment. Rather than giving death, you should let her consume herself with her own guilt. She should rot from the inside out, for years to come. But still, she might not have learnt her lesson.Until the day she dies. And the moment, jsut before she shuts her eyes, she will whisper to herself "why?". That is punishment. Lavindathar, This is where we part company, EACH and every one of us has the power to kill another human. If that was not true there would be NO murders, no wars, no accidental deaths. The sooner we as human realize that, and the responsiblity that goes along with that power the better off we humans will be. As for her punishment I don't care what the State of Texas does, it is the State of Texas's business. I nor anyone on this board who is not a registered voter of Tarant county(that is the right county?) will ever get to serve on the jury. Her guilt, her feelings of guilt? She watched a man bleed to death for THREE DAYS, heard his pleas for help. Then got friends to dispose of the body. SHE feels very little if any guilt, She feels sorry she got caught. She hit the man while drunk and high on drugs, then when she straightened up she sat there and watched this man die! She was worried about her own rear-end not about doing what was right, decent, the human thing to do. For three nights she slept while a man bleed to death in her garage. __________________ Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts

03-10-2002, 10:33 AM	#27
Talthyr Malkaviel Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: Land of the Britons Age: 37 Posts: 3,224	Yes, everyone has the power to murder John, but they don't have the right to, I think that's what he meant. __________________ Resident cantankerous sorcerer of the Clan HADB<br />and Sorcerous Nuttella salesman of the O.R.T<br /> <br /><br />Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny! Can I drill you about this?

03-10-2002, 12:18 PM	#28
John D Harris Ninja Storm Shadow Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Northport,Alabama, USA Age: 62 Posts: 3,577	quote: Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: Yes, everyone has the power to murder John, but they don't have the right to, I think that's what he meant. Talthyr Malkaviel, The word "right" brings up some interesting questions. 1) What Rights do we as Humans Have? 2) Where do these rights come from? Are they just bestoded on us beacause we are born? 3) Who says that these are the Rights we have? 4) What gives them the aurthority to say these are the Rights we have? 5) What if someone disagrees with those Rights? __________________ Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts

03-10-2002, 01:09 PM	#29
Talthyr Malkaviel Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: Land of the Britons Age: 37 Posts: 3,224	No one has the authority to give us those rights, we have the right to have rights without needing authority to have rights to rights Seriosly though, I'd love to talk about rights and what should happen in certain hypothetical situations, but I don't want to get off topic. Unless I have the right to go off topic [img]tongue.gif[/img] __________________ Resident cantankerous sorcerer of the Clan HADB<br />and Sorcerous Nuttella salesman of the O.R.T<br /> <br /><br />Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny! Can I drill you about this?

03-10-2002, 05:48 PM	#30
Barry the Sprout White Dragon Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: York, UK. Age: 41 Posts: 1,815	quote: Originally posted by John D Harris: Talthyr Malkaviel, The word "right" brings up some interesting questions. 1) What Rights do we as Humans Have? 2) Where do these rights come from? Are they just bestoded on us beacause we are born? 3) Who says that these are the Rights we have? 4) What gives them the aurthority to say these are the Rights we have? 5) What if someone disagrees with those Rights? Actually John D this is one area where I think I partially agree with you. Human Rights are an essantially social concept - they do not exist independant of humans in a society I mean. They are not, as far as I am concerned, a pre-determined condition. So in some ways they can't really be considered inalienable, but in my mind they are simply things that people should have the right to anyway. I think that people should have the right to life under all circumstances, however I do not consider that any kind of pre-set condition on society. I merely think it is the best way to run a society,and the only way I could run one morally. Basically, I can't think of any way in which I could justify killing another person. It won't make anything better and I don't think it is a judgement we are able to make. I understand though, as Talthyr said, that a lot of people don't agree with me on that. __________________ [img]\"http://img1.ranchoweb.com/images/sproutman/certwist.gif\" alt=\" - \" /><br /><br /><i>\"And the angels all pallid and wan,<br />Uprising, unveiling, affirm,<br />That the play is the tragedy, man,<br />And its hero the Conquerer Worm.\"</i><br /> - Edgar Allan Poe

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