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Old 02-10-2003, 05:08 PM   #31
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
A toothpick that pokes someones eye out is misused. It is designed to clean your teeth.
A car that crashes, deviates from it's purpose. It's designed to transport you from one place to another.

A guns sole purpose is to terminate life. Special bullets that explode when inside a body? Guns that fire off countless bullets per second? Come on! They have no other purpose. A gun that kills is doing precisely what it's intended to do. Thus the manufacturer is directly responsible for designing, creating, assembling and making publicly available a thing that will end someones life.
You are splitting hairs my friend, the car you say is made for transportation, but the guy it ran over is just as dead as if you had shot him with a bullet, and if he was drinking while driving the alcohol manufacturer should also be sued. It is a ludicrous concept to sue the manufacturer of a legal product for it's misuse. Guns are made and sold to the general public for self protection, sport and hobby. If they are misused that is the person using the item or driving the car or drinking the alcohol fault, not the manufacturer. By the way, NOT all guns are made to terminate life, there are quite a few designed for target shooting only.

You seem to be eradicating the perpetrators guilt and blame and pushing it off on someone else just because you don't like their product. Put the blame where it belongs...squarely on the shoulder of the human being who commits the crime....not on everyone around him


[ 02-10-2003, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]
 
Old 02-10-2003, 05:13 PM   #32
Yorick
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Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
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Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
A toothpick that pokes someones eye out is misused. It is designed to clean your teeth.
A car that crashes, deviates from it's purpose. It's designed to transport you from one place to another.

A guns sole purpose is to terminate life. Special bullets that explode when inside a body? Guns that fire off countless bullets per second? Come on! They have no other purpose. A gun that kills is doing precisely what it's intended to do. Thus the manufacturer is directly responsible for designing, creating, assembling and making publicly available a thing that will end someones life.
You are splitting hairs my friend, the car you say is made for transportation, but the guy it ran over is just as dead as if you had shot him with a bullet, and if he was drinking while driving the alcohol manufacturer should also be sued. It is a ludicrous concept to sue the manufacturer of a legal product for it's misuse. Guns are made and sold to the general public for self protection, sport and hobby. If they are misused that is the person useing the item or driving the car or drinking the alcohols fault, not the manufacturer. By the way, NOT all guns are made to terminate life, there are quite a few designed for target shooting only.[/QUOTE]You don't need an Uzi to practice target shooting.

The key issue for me is the intent of the device. A kitchen cutting knife is not the same thing as a Katana.

Charlie, gunpowder exists for other purposes other than propelling bullets too. Fireworks for example. It's the application of the invention/discovery into an instrument of death.

Ah whatever. I'm over it now anyway... just throwing that idea out there. If a lawyer wants to run with it it may make a diff. but I'm not a lawyer.
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Old 02-10-2003, 05:13 PM   #33
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charlie:
LOL. Larry I knew it was light hearted. Guns are emotive issues you must accept. It's not always easy to keep emotive issues within the bounds that they were meant. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Ooops you are right...guess Im done bandying words about the pro/anti gun issue though.
 
Old 02-10-2003, 05:21 PM   #34
Charlie
Lord Ao
 

Join Date: March 3, 2001
Location: London, England
Age: 30
Posts: 2,021
Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:


Charlie, gunpowder exists for other purposes other than propelling bullets too. Fireworks for example. It's the application of the invention/discovery into an instrument of death.

Ah whatever. I'm over it now anyway... just throwing that idea out there. If a lawyer wants to run with it it may make a diff. but I'm not a lawyer. [/QB]
Of course my friend of course. We're pals, nothing else matters. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 02-10-2003, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]
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Old 02-10-2003, 05:38 PM   #35
Wulfere
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Join Date: March 20, 2001
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Age: 63
Posts: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anntar:
seriously... look at america with there ''guns for all'' policy..

the only thing that happens with a gun there is shootings at school and innocent people getting killed with it...
Of course Larry, you have to realize that there are people who will use any instance to bang us on our thick Yank heads and tell us what terrible, stupid, War Mongering and violent barbarians we are. I have had the same debate over this issue with friends from other countries before. The pro and con sides never change and no one will ever make them change. I hate to say this Larry...But this is one of the forbidden subjects of the Ironworks Board. If you post something about guns or shooting then you can expect comments of this nature almost every time. It doesn't really matter if it is in a lighter vein or not. It's Taboo.

I personally thank you for posting the site. It is something I would like to own. Something I would at least like to fire at a range a few times, to see just how good a marksman I still am. It's been years since I fired a weapon.

[ 02-10-2003, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Wulfere ]
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Old 02-10-2003, 05:53 PM   #36
Charlie
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Join Date: March 3, 2001
Location: London, England
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfere:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anntar:
seriously... look at america with there ''guns for all'' policy..

the only thing that happens with a gun there is shootings at school and innocent people getting killed with it...
Of course Larry, you have to realize that there are people who will use any instance to bang us on our thick Yank heads and tell us what terrible, stupid, War Mongering and violent barbarians we are. I have had the same debate over this issue with friends from other countries before. The pro and con sides never change and no one will ever make them change. I hate to say this Larry...But this is one of the forbidden subjects of the Ironworks Board. If you post something about guns or shooting then you can expect comments of this nature almost every time. It doesn't really matter if it is in a lighter vein or not. It's Taboo.

I personally thank you for posting the site. It is something I would like to own. Something I would at least like to fire at a range a few times, to see just how good a marksman I still am. It's been years since I fired a weapon.
[/QUOTE]I agree guns are taboo. I don't think it should be a "done down" subject. Same as drugs. It's better to discuss these issues as opposed to brushing them under the carpet. Does this site have a "taboo" type culture towards guns or the more emotive issues? Truth is I'm not sure. I think in the past maybe the site was slightly more closeted, but now it's more open. It's no good pretending to the youth of today that guns, drugs and violence aren't out there. Unfortunately it really is becoming the norm'. I don't necessarily hold with the view that IW has a taboo relationship with these very serious issues. I think that as IW has evolved it has opened up and now takes these issues on board. Face it, this is now the world as we know it, we can't hide the youth from it. Better to let them know the truth....
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Old 02-10-2003, 06:04 PM   #37
Wulfere
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Join Date: March 20, 2001
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
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Unfortunately, I have come to expect just this kind of reaction on any thread that deals with guns. It shouldn't be, but it is that way. I can only think of one thread that dealt with guns where I didn't see comments on how evil guns are. That was the OICW thread. Which I stayed out of till I could talk to a few friends who have used them in some short Dog and Pony shows. Then lost my internet access for about a week so I decided not to post as they had covered most of what I wanted to say in that time.

I agree that discussion is best, but this topic usually leads to arguements and the like.
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Old 02-10-2003, 06:12 PM   #38
Atrayu
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Join Date: June 18, 2002
Location: My sunny terrace
Age: 44
Posts: 110
Quote:
Originally posted by Larry_OHF:
Yep...when I saw some of those, I thought...
"I want one, just to hang on the wall in the PC room to show-off."

You know...when MaryBeth gets about 16, I guess I will buy one, and when a little punk guy comes over to wanna take her out, I will bring out my rifle and look him in the eye, and say..."I'll be watching you, kid."
LoL! Just throw a bullet at him quickly. He will catch then look at it for a minute or two. Then say "the next time you see this coming at you it will be alot faster if you hurt my girl" then grab it out of his hand.
It works believe me. A friend told me that one.

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Old 02-10-2003, 06:27 PM   #39
Wulfere
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Join Date: March 20, 2001
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Age: 63
Posts: 893
[img]smile.gif[/img] LOL...I have a friend who has been training his daughter in Tae-Kwon-Do since she was little. She can no longer spar with the other girls. They won't let her near them. They say she hits like a guy and it hurts. LOL
He tells her prospective boyfriends ...

"If you hurt her I won't have to come looking for you. She will put you in the Hospital for me."

Edit: She isn't a bruiser either, she is a very lovely young woman.

[ 02-10-2003, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: Wulfere ]
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Old 02-10-2003, 09:14 PM   #40
Sir Taliesin
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Join Date: March 4, 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN USA
Age: 60
Posts: 1,641
Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
I don't know. It seems America is driven by a culture of litigation. I'm suprised no-one has tried this. Maybe they have and failed. I don't know... it would seem like they could have a case though. If a thief can sue the owner of a house who leaves a rake in their yard why not?
Actually, there have been several lawsuits against the firearms industry over the last several years. Most have been brought by cities. All, to my knowledge, have been thrown out. There are only two that I know of, that have been tried and won against the gun industry. I believe one is in New York (the guy that shot several people on a train) and the other is in Florida (the boy that shot and killed his teacher a couple of years ago). New York is on appeal and the reward was thrown out in the case in Florida because the Judge decided that it was excessive since the firearm in question was not proven to be defective.

Cases like these are hard to prove, because the plaintiff must prove the firearm was defective in some way. Just because someone murders someone else with a firearm doesn't mean that the firearm was defective.

However, I'm sure there are probably more than that. Those are just the ones I've heard of.
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