The American Constitution

[John D Harris]

Sorry I don't have any of those niffty statistics I'm a just the facts kinda guy. 65,000,000+ guns where NOT used to kill anybody today.

[/)eathKiller]

9_9 I don't actually care about politics and the constitution because I plan to work for the government [img]tongue.gif[/img] Yes i know I just thought that one up, but it's TRUE isn't it?

[Djinn Raffo]

Here are some stats: Take them as you will...

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Canada-US Comparison

Canada has always had stronger firearms regulation than the United States, particularly with respect to handguns. In Canada, handguns have been licensed and registered since the 1930’s, ownership of guns has never been regarded as a right and several court rulings have reaffirmed the right of the government to protect citizens from guns. Handgun ownership has been restricted to police, members of gun clubs or collectors. Very few (about 50 in the country) have been given permits to carry handguns for "self-protection." This is only possible if an applicant can prove that their life is in danger and the police cannot protect them.
As a result, Canada has roughly 1 million handguns while the United States has more than 76 million. While there are other factors affecting murder, suicide and unintentional injury rates, a comparison of data in Canada and the United States suggests that access to handguns may play a role. While the murder rate without guns in the US is roughly equivalent (1.8 times) to that of Canada, the murder rate with handguns is 14.5 times the Canadian rate. The costs of firearms death and injury in the two countries have been compared and estimated to be $495 (US) per resident in the United States compared to $195 per resident in Canada.

	Year	Canada	US	US/CAN
Population	1998	30.2 m	270m	8.9x
Number of All Firearms	1998	7.4 m	222 m	30x
Number of Handguns	1998	1.2 m	76 m	63.3x
Guns per capita	1997	.25	.82	3.3x

Firearms Death (Rate per 100,000)*	Year	Canada	US	US/Can
Accidental deaths with Firearms	1998	0.2	0.3	1.5x
Suicides with Firearms	1998	3.4	6.4	1.9x
Total Firearms Deaths	1998	4.3	11.4	2.7x

Crime Statistics (Rate per 100,000)	Year	Canada	US	US/Can
Murders with Firearms	1998	0.5	4.4	7.9x
Murders with Handguns	1998	0.23	3.3	14.5x
Murders without Guns	1998	1.3	2.3	1.8x
Robberies with Guns	1998	18	63	3.5x
Robberies without Guns	1998	78	102	1.3x

	Year	Canada	US	Can/US
Overall Homicide rate per 100,000	1998	1.83	6.62	3.6x
% of homicides with firearms	1998	27.3%	66%	2.4x
% of firearm homicides with handguns	1998	46%	75%	1.6x

Source is here

Statistics compiled from Centre for Justice Statistics; FBI Uniform Crime Reporting Data, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada Homicide Survey; Research and Statistics Division Department of Justice (Kwing Hung) June 2001

[ 10-22-2002, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Azred: Outlawing guns entirely will not reduce the rate of any sort of crime or make society any safer overall.

Ok. now the problem with this statement is that it is impossible to make.

You do not know the future. You cannot with any certainty predict anything. All you can deal with are facts that HAVE occurred.

1.People are being killed by guns.

2.When Australia introduced tough gun and knife laws, violent crime went down.

3.Australia has an exceptionally low crime rate.

These are facts. Australia and America share many things. Common heritage, similar language and cutlure, respect for "individualism", and independent, freedom loving folk.

Though the gun lobby in Australia was powerful, and even formed some political parties (The Shooters Party etc) unarmed citizens sick of gun related deaths won out in the end. It can be done.

But then, arms weren't enshrined in the constitution. Granted we didn't fight a civil war, or a war of revolution.

But then, how much is America going to be chained by the past? The attitude to guns was formed in the wake of the war against Britain. What are the odds of the British monarch taxing Americans without representation again? The threat is over. America is the Roman Republic (soon to be Empire if a policy of 'premeditative invasions' becomes commonplace... oops did I say that ) of the modern world.

My point being, America is not in the same situation as it was when the constitution was drafted. Internally or externally, The threats are different. The problems different.

New problems require new solutions.

[ 10-22-2002, 02:35 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[LordKathen]

A lot of opinions around here. Here's mine, The constitution was a foundating guild by witch we should always refer to for advice and sanctity. But, as the population keeps getting bigger by the DAY, so does the demoralization of humanity. We need to keep up with times and amend "amendments" as needed to control the chaotic actions of the bad population. Everyone has morals on a different level and we dont need to argue those, but I think most of us here have "basic" morals, and can understand what I'm saying. We can't take away guns from people, becouse we can't take away ALL the guns from ALL people. The bad will win this way. I'm not socialist, but am realistic, If were going to all live in a comfortable place with our freedom intact, then we need to come to reality and amend with coution, but definetly change some things that do not apply to this day and age. This is just my opinion.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by LordKathen: A lot of opinions around here. Here's mine, The constitution was a foundating guild by witch we should always refer to for advice and sanctity. But, as the population keeps getting bigger by the DAY, so does the demoralization of humanity. We need to keep up with times and amend "amendments" as needed to control the chaotic actions of the bad population. Everyone has morals on a different level and we dont need to argue those, but I think most of us here have "basic" morals, and can understand what I'm saying. We can't take away guns from people, becouse we can't take away ALL the guns from ALL people. The bad will win this way. I'm not socialist, but am realistic, If were going to all live in a comfortable place with our freedom intact, then we need to come to reality and amend with coution, but definetly change some things that do not apply to this day and age. This is just my opinion.

You can. Australia did. Do you know how?

A buyback scheme.

People got paid to hand in their gun.

Then they were made illegal. You'd get fined or imprisoned if you had one. So there was an amnesty for a while where people who for whatever reason missed the buyback, could still hand in their gun.

So, be a realist. Don't suggest something CAN'T be done when it already has been, for all intents and purposes, successfully done.

[Yorick]

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States.(Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

In 1999, 58% of all gun deaths were suicides, and 38% were homicides.(SOURCE: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

What do these figures tell you?

[LordKathen]

I have never been there, but from what I understand It Is much different than here, as far as culture and attitude towards there government. We did have a civil war here, witch put us against ourselfes. I think over time, that has created a sub culture of fanatics that will not sell of there guns or worry about imprisonment for owning one. I do stand corrected, It happened, but not here.

[LordKathen]

It was just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...

[Iron_Ranger]

Yorrick, granted I havent read all of your posts. But I did scam over that last bit of your last post. You said 'New problems require new soulutions'. Thats not entirley true. Take the Bible for instance. No mater how far we progress in the furture (its my belief) the bible will always hold soulutions for new and old problems.

Not that I am compairing the US Constitution to the Bible or anything such as that, just some late night ramblings from me, feel free to ignore