Support wanted !! Anyone else here who doesn't like Christmas ??

[Pangur Ban]

quote:

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Originally posted by Fljotsdale:


I'm not into christmas either! Its just one big commercial break and I can happily do without it on that basis alone. The fact that it has been hijacked prom paganism as a 'christian' festival of Jesus birth also annoys me! I wouldn't mind it nearly as much if we just had a 'winter feast' to brighten the dark winter days, and if the commercial aspect was absent - or at least much diminished; I suppose it is too much to hope for the elimination of commercialism!

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Hooray, I'm not alone !!! *Pangur offers hug to Fljotsdale*

Its nice to know that someone else knows some of the pagan source behind the "rituals" of Christmas ...

I have to agree that it's too much to hope to eliminate commercialism. What hope do we have when even Santa's costume of red and white was designed as a advertising stunt for Coca-Cola?

Pang.

[Melusine]

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Originally posted by Pangur Ban:



Its nice to know that someone else knows some of the pagan source behind the "rituals" of Christmas ...

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Uh, maybe it's just me but there are quite a lot of people who know this (they usually go around complaining about how no-one knows about the pagan origins of Christmas [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

Actually, I was writing a long post in reply to your topic yesterday but about halfway through I got tired of it...still have it copied somewhere though....lemme see....

"I do like the atmosphere of Christmas, but I don't think it's the best day of the year or something like that. I like every holiday for its own distinct feel and vibe - Christmas does give a certain feeling of hope and peace, and I love the whole "feast of Light" thing, but I also appreciate the theme of renewal, spring, new life of Easter, and so forth.
Do keep in mind that Christmas is celebrated differently in all countries. The typical American Christmas doesn't really appeal to me - in my family, we don't have specific dishes for Christmas, and we certainly don't eat turkey or rabbit- we tend to keep dinner simple and unambitious, heh.
Also, we have another important holiday (today, 5 December!!) in Holland called Sinterklaas, which I really like as much or even better as Christmas. The atmosphere is sooo different from that of Christmas. "Sinterklaas" comes from St Nicolas, patron saint of fishermen and children. He is a historical figure, and some people still know the stories told about him, but for children, he's been transformed into a kind of Santa Claus (the names are etymologically related - just try and pronounce them after eachother!). It's almost the same as with your Santa Claus, children believein him until about the age of 6 to 10. However, he's not your typical round-bellied, jolly, ho-ho-ho-yelling old guy, but rather he's stately and friendly in a quieter way. He rides a white horse that can walk over the rooftops. Also, he does bring presents but rather than put them in stockings, his helper, Zwarte Piet (black Pete) leaves a sack full of goodies at the front door, knocks and runs. This part of the tradition is said to come from Norse mythology: Wuotan had two black ravens sitting on his shoulder, was said to ride through the air on a horse and in wintertime, people left him gifts to appease him. Another theory why Black Petes are black holds that they got their colour from climbing through the chimney to check if children have been good or bad. After the children stop believeing in Sint, most people celebrate the 5th of December by drawing lots and making a "surprise". This can be almost anything, usually based on a characteristic or hobby of the receiver, serving as a container for the gift. It's often a cardboard model of an appropriate item (a lipstick, a boat, a birdhouse, a book). Some wise guys just make a surprise consisting of a huge box filled with treacle and sawdust, in which the present is hidden. It is also customary to write little poems for each gift, hinting at the content.
In my family, we all buy eachother several small or larger presents, write a funny little rhyme for each and then put the lot in a big sack. My mother then randomly draws a package from the bag and the person whose name is on the label will read the poem and unwrap the gift. To us, this is one of the best days in the year, the only shadow that has overcast it in the last two years is the absence of my grandmother, who always celebrated the feast with us, and who sadly died two years ago. I now celebrate it with my mother, sister and my boyfriend. The fun of buying the others presents and the anticipation on the evenig itself whether they will like your poems and gifts is almost better than receiving gifts yourself. While the holiday has become more commercialised over the years, or abandoned in favour of Christmas, I cherish it as a great tradition.

[Melusine]

To illustrate the sort of poems we write for Sinterklaas, I happen to have two written in English (the rest, naturally, was in Dutch).
I'm thinking maybe I should start a new thread about this rather than hijacking yours, Pangur. I hope you don't mind, but if you prefer this to stay on topic, let me know and I'll delete my posts [img]smile.gif[/img]
I just thought it would be nice to let all of you have a taste of a different culture and tradition [img]smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, the first poem was for my boyfriend and the gift that went along with it was a book by Scottish novelist Iain Banks (who lives in Fife). The second was for my sister, the gift was a Millennium Edition slipcase from Penguin Books with 6 classics of English Literature (Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, Wuthering Heigths, Pride and Prejudice, Robinson Crusoe, Hard Times)

Dear Sebastiaan,

The Patron Saint of this joyous eve
Decided to address you in English for a change
Yes, the old bag still has a few tricks up his sleeve
A simple poem in English is just within his range

However, soon the dear man did realise
The difficulty of managing both reason and rhyme
To make this work, he’d have to improvise
In order to finish within reasonable time.

Therefore, to be succesful in the attempt,
there were quite some rules he had to bend
The first of which, (he hopes you’re not miffed)
is that the poem should be about the gift.

That would be too much to ask of the sage
He is getting slightly senile with age
And to write a poem that’s to the point
Quite frankly, his brains would get out of joint.

So bear with this silly old man
He’s doing the very best he can
And be honest, it’s quite refreshing to see
A poem that doesn’t care for sensibility

Therefore, let’s now dwell for a while
Not upon this epistle’s artistic style
But on some pleasant discourse of every-day life
And lo and behold, for here we arrive
On topic, at the moment we least expected:
Sint hears you are a fan of the dude from Fife!
Finally the loose strands are connected!

Sint sighs a gasp of relief in his beard
He managed to pull it off, because he persevered!
Whew!

Sinterklaas

Dear Lotte,

Again Sinterklaas has had to switch
To the beautiful language of the Brits
It’s more appropriate to this gift
And easier for me, if you catch my drift.
So sit back and listen to this rhyme
It will all become clear to you in time

A goodly doctor, friendly and kind
In his spare time, puts his agile mind
To developing a potion of magic
The results turn out to be deeply tragic
When he turns out to be changed
He ends up wicked and deranged

A boy – a man, beautiful and young
A fair disposition and quick of tongue
Strays off the virtuous path of the right
Slowly turns into a being of anger and spite
But his features remain as pure as before
What’s the secret in this uncanny lore?

A star-crossed pair of lovers on the moors
Both alike in stubborn recalcitrance
They think themselves in love secure
But find they’re ripped apart by tragic chance
In death, they finally reunite
A new generation emerges, bright.

Three more of these wondrous stories
Full of love, death, hardship and glory
Not for nothing called the best of their age
I hope you’ll enjoy them, page after page!

Sint & Piet

[Fljotsdale]

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Originally posted by MagiK:


Rather than let it annoy you why not celebrate the fact that an ancien and basicly lost holiday is carried forward in some manner even if 99.9999999999% of the people don't know the origins? Why let the fact that someone or some group has adopted a tradition irk you...especially when its true intent (outside the commercialism) is to bring cheer and good will to all? Why focus on the NEGATIVES??? don't be a gloomy guss...lets spin this aroound and find the good.

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Ermmm..... I thought I had indicated that the thing that irked me was not the winter holiday in itelf, but the fact that christianity has adopted the pagan feasts of Saturn and of the Rebirth of the Invincible Sun lock stock and barrel into christianity, merely substituting Jesus for the Reborn Sun. Jesus must cringe every christmas, lol!
Hope that clarifies.... ?

[Fljotsdale]

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Originally posted by Sazerac:
ROFL!!! Good comments, guys!

Well, I for one detest the commercialism of the season as well, and I absolutely refuse to set foot near one of those "temples of commercialism" (you call 'em "malls"; I call them "mauls" ) during the season. However, that doesn't dampen my spirit for the true nature of the season. As MagiK says, it's best not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but istead concentrate on the good that's out there. I personally LOVE all the lights and being around my friends and family during the season, but I can understand how that wouldn't melt other's butter as well. I guess it's all how you perceive it.

Cheers,

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I love the pretty lights and stuff as well as anyone! I want rid of commercialism (no hope!) and the attachment of christianity to what is pagan (also no hope, lol!).
Just gimme a nice Winter Festival! Mind you, not many people consider the religious aspects, either the ancient original or the later adoption.....!!

[Fljotsdale]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pangur Ban:


Hooray, I'm not alone !!! *Pangur offers hug to Fljotsdale*

Its nice to know that someone else knows some of the pagan source behind the "rituals" of Christmas ...

I have to agree that it's too much to hope to eliminate commercialism. What hope do we have when even Santa's costume of red and white was designed as a advertising stunt for Coca-Cola?

Pang.

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LOL! No hope at all, Pangur! ((((hugs in return))))

[Fljotsdale]

Melusine! Two great posts! I really enjoyed reading them! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Lord of Alcohol]

I dont particularly mind christmas, but I'm not into it either. I used to spend it with family up in Philly, but Moms moved to Germany and sister/bro-in-law to Boston so I'll be at home for christmas. Might just go to work for the sheer sport of it actually. On the other hand I could take it off and drink beer and get shit-faced all day. It will be a "gametime" decision
On the mall thing, not a chance I'm going near one. Anyone who thinks otherwise better put down the crackpipe [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Pangur, I have to agree with a lot of your feelings about the season. I celebrate this season for many reasons, and with several different celebrations, none of which are connected with commercialism. The advertising has become simply hideous and has clouded both the original intent and the adopted one. It is, however, a very good time of year to gather with your family and loved ones and celebrate life. Whatever your belief system, there is much to be said for gathering together and enjoying yourself rather than freezing your ass off waiting for spring to come.
Oh, and Melusine, thank you very very much for sharing your traditions. I think the poems introducing the gifts are a fantastic idea, I think I'll try something like that this year. There is a very comforting aspect to carrying on family traditions, especially when some members are no longer here, as it allows us to remember them and their lives and how they have touched us. I hope the rest of your season is happy and fulfilling, dear.

[Melusine]

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Originally posted by Absynthe:

Oh, and Melusine, thank you very very much for sharing your traditions. I think the poems introducing the gifts are a fantastic idea, I think I'll try something like that this year. There is a very comforting aspect to carrying on family traditions, especially when some members are no longer here, as it allows us to remember them and their lives and how they have touched us. I hope the rest of your season is happy and fulfilling, dear.

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Thank you! [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
I thought people would like reading about a wholly different cultural festivity... You worded it quite right - some people think such a holiday is materialistic and hypocritical, but to me it is exactly like you said; a comforting tradition. And yes, it's often a time where we stop to think about my grandmother and talk of our fond memories of her. I know there is a materialistic aspect involved, but we all just love giving eachother presents because we know eachother so well... It's nice to see we just know exactly what sort of thing the others like for a gift.
I just read someone saying on another forum that giving eachother presents at Christmas (or Sinterklaas, I assume) was hypocritical, as it was only intended to buy off the guilt from treating eachother like shit the rest of the year... Oh well...I had a great evening (even if I didn't get to eat any of the traditional goodies because I can't eat sugar) and my family too, and that's all that matters [img]smile.gif[/img] .

Ooh, if I can find it, I'll post a recipe for real Dutch "pepernoten" (peppernuts), a classic Sinterklaas-snack. They are small, spicy balls of a kind of cookiedough that the Black Petes throw all over the floor when Sint arrives, so that all the children, squealing, dart to the ground and try to get a handful of the delicacy.