05-11-2002, 02:40 PM | #61 | |||||
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If 2 or more people of consenting people wish to have sex, and they are of legal age, why should we stop them? Quote:
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And many churches church’s championing of marriage is blatant hypocracy when many will not support re-marrying divorcees or same sex marriages. Also people all make mistakes, sometimes they make mistakes about people. They find they no longer wish to carry on a relationship, in such a case it is only right that they be allowed divorce. In times past people would soldier on with miserable marriages, the rise in divorces now reflects that people are freer to build better lives with people they actually love. Quote:
We cannot yet cure AIDS/HIV, even our most advanced drugs and medical technology can only hold it at bay, and the frequency of other STD’s is increasing all the time. You can get many STD’s not just though sex but also from other activities and contacts, you cannot ever be sure. But safe sex such as a condom can help to prevent this. I’ve seen people dieing of AIDs and/or the related infections caused by weakening of the immune system, It’s not a pretty sight and you cannot expect monogamy to prevent this nor can you expect all people to be monogamous, the best way of preventing this is safe sex, like condoms. To reject a condom because “It's faux sex.” is pure selfishness. Your argument also rests on the deontological idea that god exists and you must do what he says in the matters of sexual intercourse. You cannot prove that god exists therefore your argument rests purely on the notion “of what god wants” even if a god did exist, you cannot claim to be able to reasonably interpret what it wants or even what it thinks. Quote:
Ultimately it is his or her choice, and who is anyone to infringe upon that choice by telling them that it "bad" for them to have sex before marriage or something like that? |
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05-11-2002, 03:14 PM | #62 | |
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But There is no darkness, nor is there light, there is only humanity and how we shape and define the universe. We give our lives meaning through our goals and deeds, Ultimately these will be for nothing, but we still must strive to achieve for that is all we can do as humans. For one day we will cease to be, our consciousness gone forever. How we wish for eternal life. Perhaps one day through genetic engineering and cybernetics we will improve on what nature has evolved of us, even now we could at least attempt the basics of this if someone had the funding. To make ourselves as perfect as anything can be that is all we can do, But we will only find that through embracing and acknowledging our imperfections and ultimately removing them, but how shall we do this? By secular or by religious ends? Ultimately that is your choice. |
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05-11-2002, 05:56 PM | #63 | |||||||
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
Join Date: August 31, 2001
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Human nature is not stiff and unbending, otherwise it would be extinct, and if you mean it goes against basic survival instinct, I agree, but a lot of things do that we have done. Quote:
Cement social relationships? Are you sure?? Maybe it only feels that way because your genes make you feel that way, in fact this is highly likely as if there was no seeming pleasure in sex or sexual stimulation our race would be doomed. Quote:
I'm all for same sex marriages if they want them, but I'm not a christian so it is their practice, not mine. Quote:
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You can't exactly get it from hugging people. You're correct that you can't expect everyone to be monogamous, that's fairly obvious since not everyone is catholic or monogamous for other reasons, but yes, if both partners have followed Catholic rules, they can be sure of not catching STD's, condom or no. Quote:
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Resident cantankerous sorcerer of the Clan HADB<br />and Sorcerous Nuttella salesman of the O.R.T<br /> <br /><br />Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny! Can I drill you about this? |
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05-11-2002, 06:39 PM | #64 | ||||||
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
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For example: Do not murder. Obvious. Do not envy. Again, obvious, envy is self destructive and hampers relationship with the envy and removes an individuals focus. As far as celibacy goes, there are many times in a life when one may have to practice celibacy. A spouse may be ill or away. If one wants that relationship to continue on the spouses return/healing one is often advised to be celibate. Celibacy is also not only the domain of the religious. Sportsmen practice it. Some practice it to 'keep their energy'. To each their own. Who are you to criticise anothers values? People go to a church often for guidance. Because they may need relationship counselling, healing in some fashion. Good churches can be spiritual and emotional hospitals. Why criticise them for doing their job. Can you do better? Quote:
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Were you aware I'm divorced? Were you aware I contribute to the ministry of a church? Were you aware homosexuals are more than welcome in my church? It seems from your posts, you have little experience with the Christian Church. We all have our issues Dramnek. Some are more visable than others. An accepting Church accepts all, and lets God work stuff out with that person themselves. Quote:
If you're going to go sleeping around, then of course wear a condom. But that's not the only alternative. So, no, I'm not asking for it. Quote:
Now, You tell me that you can't claim be able to reasonablly interpret what it thinks. Fair enough, I won't argue that. I believe I can. I believe he does exist, and communicates quite reguarly what is good for my life, and what isn't. No mistaking those messages. This is my reality Dramnek. This is my truth. You cannot prove me wrong. Quote:
Again, throwing your subjectivity out there, who are you to say we're wrong. If people in a Church have collectively tried option A, and option B, some trying both, others one or the other, and the decision is reached that option B is a better path in pursuing happiness, who are you to criticise this? Millions of humans are in agreement on this subject. There's something to it. There's no smoke without a fire. [ 05-11-2002, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ] |
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05-11-2002, 06:51 PM | #65 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
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But There is no darkness, nor is there light, there is only humanity and how we shape and define the universe. We give our lives meaning through our goals and deeds, Ultimately these will be for nothing, but we still must strive to achieve for that is all we can do as humans. For one day we will cease to be, our consciousness gone forever. How we wish for eternal life. Perhaps one day through genetic engineering and cybernetics we will improve on what nature has evolved of us, even now we could at least attempt the basics of this if someone had the funding. To make ourselves as perfect as anything can be that is all we can do, But we will only find that through embracing and acknowledging our imperfections and ultimately removing them, but how shall we do this? By secular or by religious ends? Ultimately that is your choice.[/QB][/QUOTE]Yet again you avoid the question, and post nihlistic generalisations proclaiming your perception as applicable for all. You may see all is for nothing. Can you not see that your statment only applies to you, or whoever agrees with you? My life is not meaningless. It is a means for an end. I know I will live on after this. I have never said you will live forever, never said your life has meaning. How can you say mine doesn't? Can you not see the blind mistruth in your words? You PRESUME to SPEAK for EVERYONE. This is the main annoyance I have with you, while your nihlism is what concerns me. |
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05-11-2002, 06:55 PM | #66 |
Very Mad Bird
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Dramnek, I should also add, that my belief system also includes the belief that my God loves you. Intensely. Whether you are aware or not, whether you reject that love or not. He loves you and wants you to know him.
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05-11-2002, 09:13 PM | #67 | |
Horus - Egyptian Sky God
Join Date: April 10, 2001
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"Dramnek, let me fix up your post: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: There is no point to my life, No meaning to my life. It will end with the cessation of consciousness and an eternal death. And it is this what I am afraid of, and blind myself to with faith, Faith in pessimism, Faith in the communist ideology, Faith trying to shoot down people's hope to make me feel better. Faith in anything that lets me think that the promise of eternal life doesn't exist so that I'll feel a bit better if I miss out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's what you meant to say wasn't it? You didn't mean to presume to know peoples motivations did you? I mean, you understand that unless you've walked a mile in someones shoes you can't possibly know their motives. There may not be meaning to your life, but there is to mine, and millions upon millions of my fellow humans. So speak for yourself oh miserable, bitter, wet blanket." |
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05-11-2002, 11:39 PM | #68 | |
Very Mad Bird
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"Dramnek, let me fix up your post: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: There is no point to my life, No meaning to my life. It will end with the cessation of consciousness and an eternal death. And it is this what I am afraid of, and blind myself to with faith, Faith in pessimism, Faith in the communist ideology, Faith trying to shoot down people's hope to make me feel better. Faith in anything that lets me think that the promise of eternal life doesn't exist so that I'll feel a bit better if I miss out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's what you meant to say wasn't it? You didn't mean to presume to know peoples motivations did you? I mean, you understand that unless you've walked a mile in someones shoes you can't possibly know their motives. There may not be meaning to your life, but there is to mine, and millions upon millions of my fellow humans. So speak for yourself oh miserable, bitter, wet blanket."[/QUOTE]Caleb, need I point out that I did that to show what Dramnek was doing to me and those who believe like I do? It was making a point by reversing the situation Mr Smartybiscuit. |
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05-12-2002, 09:46 AM | #69 | |||||
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It’s perfectly possible for Sexual reproduction to occur without any pleasure whatsoever. But some Evolutionary Anthropologists (or Biologists?) think that taking pleasure from sex is very important for social species such as mankind, since it can help to from stable relationships between pairs, which allow for primitive societies to develop. Also taking pleasure from sex means that people will do it more often, thus increasing the chance of passing on their genes. Quote:
Not be held in chains by the idea that what they are doing is somehow “sinful” and “bad” which enslaves people. The divorce rate for Catholics is rising; this shows that they do not all wish to be held back by the idea that marriage is for life. It’s not good for people who don’t get on or dislike each other to live together. If there is no desire on one or both partner’s part to salvage the relationship, in 100 out of 100 cases a divorce is best. Quote:
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It would like be trying to justify killing all cats in America on the basis that if someone who hated cats was president, they’d want that done. Quote:
But first of all they should not attempt to go around trying to impose on society that this is the best what for things. Secondly such choices should be made of rational and logical evidence, not the idea that “it will make the world a better place” and “god wants us to” since those ideas cannot be proved in a non-subjective manner. |
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05-12-2002, 09:46 AM | #70 | ||||||||
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You cannot derive an “ought” from an “is” Therefore IMHO there is no such thing as morality, just people and their desires. What we term morality is merely a sham masking people’s urges because they don’t have the courage or strength to own up to them. It is better to stop speaking morally and to start speaking honestly. Obviously we cannot all go round indulging in our desires all the time as organised society would be collapse, so our desires are better served by co-operation and negotiation and compromise, but there is no need to Believe in illusions. Quote:
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Here's where the developmental clock comes in. By 14 weeks, when the hormones turn on, the nipples have already formed. So, while our male fetus goes on to become a baby boy, he keeps his nipples, reminding all of us that people, male and female, started off the same way." Quote:
Gay bashing is also very popular with many religions and Churches, which in the eyes of most people of course lends it legitimacy. Most churches here certainly do not support same sex marriages and many do not even like female vicars, and if that’s not discrimination I don’t know what is, and I’ll wager the situation is the same in many other countries as well. Quote:
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Many people are racist and agree on racist ideas and policies (for example the British National party) but that doesn’t mean there is anything good in it does there? You Also presume to cast judgement on my personal views about sexual matters. If I believe that sex is special I can and Do, but other people do not have to do the same, and it is only in my opinion that sex is special. And how this belief of speciality is put into practise is also subjective and many people choose to do it differently. |
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