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Old 08-25-2004, 11:26 AM   #1
Tyros the Demon Slayer
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: August 21, 2004
Location: New York City
Age: 53
Posts: 26
I can't tell you how pleased I am to see that my favorite computer game has such a detailed and thorough board dedicated to it here. That's very gratifying. It certainly makes you feel like you're not the only one in the world just trying to get past the Swamp/Marten's Bluff for the first time.

I think I need to do a lot of reading here before I pose any questions. I will. But I wanted to let you know how I have been "handicapping" myself to try to get through this game. Perhaps I'm a glutton for punishment, but I've basically made a self-imposed rule that if the party gets wiped out for any reason short of a computer crash, or a bug in the game, I start over. From scratch. Kind of like being on IronMan mode, but with the insurance of some protection if something outside of bad combat or a trap ends my game. The result is that I've never made it farther than Marten's Bluff, although I did wander into the Mountain Wilderness once just to see what that was like. (Yikes!)

If, notwithstanding that handicap, you guys can help me get from the Monastery to AP, I will be forever grateful.

Now, to read all this stuff.....

Thanks for being here.
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Old 08-25-2004, 11:36 AM   #2
Target
Red Dragon
 

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Location: The Midlands
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Welcome Tyros the Demon Slayer, you'll find we'll all try and help you get there!
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Old 08-25-2004, 11:52 AM   #3
Wereboar
Baaz Draconian
 

Join Date: June 6, 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 795
Welcome Tyros.

Perhaps you should tell us what kind of parties you play, and where you get killed.
I have played a number of ironman parties (with a backup save file for death due to bugs - in this case a playing session is lost, not the whole game). Whe i get killed, it's usually martens bluff, or trynton, or the swamp. I recall only one death later in the game (away camp), and a very close call (SE temple). But thats with the experience from a good number of games.
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Old 08-25-2004, 12:15 PM   #4
dplax
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: July 19, 2003
Location: an expat living in France
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Welcome to Ironworks Tyros. Hope you enjoy the game, and whenever you have a problem just make a post here and you shall probably get several replies to it.
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Old 08-25-2004, 02:47 PM   #5
Nightwing
Baaz Draconian
 

Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: Neb.
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Welcom Tyros, There's nothing wrong with running. Sometimes you need to set the battle field up for the kind of party you have.
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Old 08-25-2004, 03:16 PM   #6
Tyros the Demon Slayer
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: August 21, 2004
Location: New York City
Age: 53
Posts: 26
I'd love to tell you about all of the usual suspects for where my party bites the dust. I'm just worried that (a) I might accidentally spoil stuff for people who haven't even got past where I usually lose out and (b) that some of these deaths will be so avoidable, it will be embarrassing. That said, anti-spoiler blank space lines follow, and then top six places where I've bitten the dust.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts. If the type of party at issue matters, I can post that for people too, but you can assume that these deaths have been consistent, even with different types of parties.
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1) The Battering Hogar in the Northern Wilderness. Maybe someone can tell me if all the goodies he's guarding are actually worth it? Still haven't beaten him yet.

2) The Oak Saplings off of the anti-magic area in Trynton. I've figured out how to beat back the toxic clouds, but they always seem to take out my spell casters with Crush spells before I can do anything to them. Even with a Faerie mage.

3) Any encounters with Leaf Sprites in Trynton. Doesn't even matter if I try to run.

4) Cultists/ Highwaymen on the Arnika Road. I even got them once just after completing the Monastery -- my guys couldn't have been that tough.

5) The Rattkin. Not the breeders -- those are beatable. But I always seem to run into Rattkin Goons and others right after clearing the Rattkin Breeder room.

6) Moraxes in the Cemetary Dungeon. Only beat the three of them once, and then because two of them had spells fizzle on them in the same first round.

Bonus: one chest has wrecked my party so many times it's not even funny. How high a Locks/Traps should you have before trying the chest with Don Barlone?
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Old 08-25-2004, 04:36 PM   #7
Gadgeteer Tom
Dungeon Master
 

Join Date: May 13, 2004
Location: Mpls, MN
Age: 71
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Oooh, what a great collection of questions...and the composition of parties makes a big difference in strategy, so post Race, Gender, Occupation for your Party, also perhaps formation. (Did you realize that you can change formation by clicking

Now to your major causes of death:

1) The Battering Hogar in the Northern Wilderness. Maybe someone can tell me if all the goodies he's guarding are actually worth it? Still haven't beaten him yet.

Battering Hogars have lots of HP, but are generally lower level, try putting him to sleep, paralyze, nauseate, etc. Once he's out, it's not hard to just beat him to death. Perhaps keep backing up ? The XP are usually worth it, and goodies can be sold, gold is good.

2) The Oak Saplings off of the anti-magic area in Trynton. I've figured out how to beat back the toxic clouds, but they always seem to take out my spell casters with Crush spells before I can do anything to them. Even with a Faerie mage.

Have you tried sneaking up to the corner (where they can't see your party yet, starting combat and selecting RUN, pop around the corner and 'buff up' (Haste, Element Shield, Magic shield, Soul Shield, Enchant Blade, Missile Shield, Armorplate, Superman potions, Eye for an Eye, whatever). Next round RUN OUT TO THE NO-Magic area, I like the 'healing pond' myself. when they come to you, beat on them - they can't use magic there either...but the pond seems to keep many in my party from dying.

3) Any encounters with Leaf Sprites in Trynton. Doesn't even matter if I try to run.

Run to them, they have few HP and LOTS of magic - they won't last long in a slugfest (and may drop some cool stuff too). Use Tincture of Shadows or Chamelon spells to get close enough to run to them in one turn.

4) Cultists/ Highwaymen on the Arnika Road. I even got them once just after completing the Monastery -- my guys couldn't have been that tough.

Cultists have few HP, and are chickens (they stay way back, just within spell range and just outside of ranged weapon range). Again, if you can get close - they'll fold fast to weapons, yet resist magic. Silence is a very handy spell for them also. Rouges and highwaymen can be impaired with magic rather easily (Blind, Fear, Sleep, etc.)

5) The Rattkin. Not the breeders -- those are beatable. But I always seem to run into Rattkin Goons and others right after clearing the Rattkin Breeder room.

Buff, impair, and chase. use Shadows or Chamelon to get close - xray can help you to initiate combat or aviod as needed.

6) Moraxes in the Cemetary Dungeon. Only beat the three of them once, and then because two of them had spells fizzle on them in the same first round.

'Magic' Buffs help, Magic Shield, Element Shield, Soul Shield - then again, get close and hack 'em.

Bonus: one chest has wrecked my party so many times it's not even funny. How high a Locks/Traps should you have before trying the chest with Don Barlone?

I make my Gadgeteer do all traps and locks - some items can help, like Thiefs Buckler, by increasing trap/lock skill, knock picks can help with locks also - and sometimes it's just easier to heal the damage to get the stuff.

"Universal" combat tip, anytime attacked by more than two or three, get by a wall or cliff/hill to prevent them from getting all around you, there are bonus damage points for hitting from behind - don't let them get those when hitting YOU !

Also, you COULD set your difficulty level to minimum...it can be changed back.

Also, if I'm dying, although I may try to run - I may also let everyone die...the game tracks more than just player experience...sometimes it then generates fewer opponents, or sends them as seperate battles, which makes it a bit easier.
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Old 08-25-2004, 06:44 PM   #8
Flamestryke
The Magister
 

Join Date: August 14, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 66
Posts: 109
Ok maybe some basics and tactics as well as direct answers to your frequent death situations. *Contains Major Spoilers*

1) The Battering Hogar: This encounter can always be saved until your party is stronger. In this particular case, the encounter isn't necessary at all from a perspective of game progress. Besides, many of the better items in its cave are for a party about level 11. If he gives you trouble leave him til later, he and the goodies will always be there for when you are ready.

I'm actually surprised Tom didn't toot his own horn here. I find Hogar encounters to go exceeding well when a Gadgeteer in the party has a good supply of duct tape. [img]graemlins/showoff.gif[/img]


2) The Oaks. I have these guys down to a science, but its underhanded the way I deal with them. I stand in the hall just out of sight of them but where I can see into the room a bit. I either cast an area effect spell, or most always throw in a Fire Bomb from Fuzzfas. Other party members cast what ever protects or use items that protect or enhance themselves and/or the party.

Second round, run to the edge of the hallway near the door where I can peek back at where I was. Usually the Oaks all cast Body of Stone this second round.

Third round, they charge. I run out the door to the no magic zone making sure to stay out of line of sight of the door. This usually drags them out there with the party. Then I run the party back into the hallway and stand back so the Oaks will come up to the door but not cross that little magical line out of the no magic zone.

Then the party steps into them and the party can turn the tables on them by being able to cast spells, even if only healing and buff. Our poor Sap(ling)s are standing out there and must resort to hand to hand combat. They are good at it so protect the party the best you can with Guardian Angel, Body of Stone, and Razor Cloak, either spell or potions work.

If nothing else this at least evens the playing field so to speak where they are concerned.

3) A little cheesey trick is available in Trynton to help you with those Sprites and Oaks. Stand just down the hallway from Chief Gari. Enter combat mode and just hit enter. Chief Gari always casts some sort of buff or protective spell when he has no enemies in sight. In some games where I have no spell casters to protect from magical attacks I do this repeatedly until he blankets the party with a level 6 or 7 Magic Screen.

Also, if Leaf Sprites attack near Fuzzfas, go in the room with him, most likely he will cast elemental shield at some point to further help your resistances at least during that combat.

Stepping just around a corner so the sprites have to charge you is also a good tactic. I like using a Napalm Bomb and getting them up close and personal. A few well placed whacks and poof at the end of the combat they go pop to the ring of fire. I just try to have as many party members as possible target different Sprites so some damage is done to all of them to weaken them for the Ring of Fire to finish off.

4) Arnika Road: The first time you hit Arnika Road coming out of the Monastery can be a nightmare. I shudder to remember my first trip out. The party was scrabbling to get back in. Later I found some advice that was quite helpful, particularly if you haven't actually completed the game yet and don't have much experience with tactics.

Random monster encounters are based on party average level. When leaving the Monastery your party is definitely ill equipped and likely their skills are just not up to par. Training methods exist but not all of us like to employ them. Try holding back the party level ups after they have reached level 5.

Now most encounters will be more in keeping with what a young group of adventurers can cope with.

Note: Some loot generation is based on party level as well, so when entering Arnika for the first time try to have your party members level 6 at least. This qualifies them for a bit better loot.

Magic Using Enemies in general: As Tom pointed out, being able to cast protective magics is your main chance for survival. You can also find items eventually that help boost resistence to magical attacks.

As mentioned, some of the best tactics are to rush them and beat the stuffing out of them if you have a group good at close combat. Silence spells are always useful, but from the sounds of things your parties aren't getting to a level where the spell has any real power yet.

5) The Rattkin: These guys, IMHO are way over powered for their level rating. They are however, quite susecptible to mental spells. Insanity on the Goons and the Archers works well. But I particularly love using a powder of Defection or Turncoat spell on one right in the middle of them. Usually they are so busy trying to beat on him the party gets a break and can pound them to a pulp.

Acid Bombs, Fire Bombs, and even Death Bombs from the Don *hint hint* take their toll on these guys over time.

I saw a post about another tactic that works well too. As long as you and the Don are buddy buddy drag the goons in to him. Between him, Milano, and the party they don't stand a chance.


6) The Morax: If you have a Priest or Bishop in the party use the Turn Undead option. If you get lucky they can be paralyzed. Dust of Banishment is a good option here. Open the door and keep the party squeezed into the corner so the Morax cannot see you immediately.

Go into combat mode and strafe a smidgeon into view of them. Have any one and everyone in the party ready these handy little bags of powder before the strafe and voila, most likely the Morax won't be around long enough to get a spell off.

Yes, yet another little dirty trick I pull on the enemy.

Bonus: The chest next to Don Barlone is a Generic High Level chest. It has the tougher traps of the game. I think a good divine trap spell coupled with a good lock picker will help you here.

Depending on what difficulty setting you use for the game, Novice, Normal, or Expert, you will need Locks and Traps about at least 65% or higher to get the contents without getting your arse shot off.

One other thing. Stop rushing. It looks to me like you are taking your parties too far too fast. Don't be afraid to "hang out" in an area until your party is strong enough to handle themselves.

Let magic users build power to buff and protect the party. Always cast spells like Magic Screen, Missile Shield, Enchanted Blade, and Armorplate outside of combat. Keeping these in force at all times will greatly improve the party's chance of survival. If you do not use casters then try to lay your hands on scrolls, some can be bought, some cannot. Use them as soon as you know an encounter is at hand since they are not as easily replenished as a spell from a party member would be.

That advice for holding back levels goes for any new area. If you are having trouble dealing with the monsters you encounter randomly stop leveling up for awhile. Give your party time to build their skills to a point where the encounters go more smoothly in their favor.

Take your time, enjoy the areas, build up skills, and don't tackle things that are too big for your party's britches.

[ 08-25-2004, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Flamestryke ]
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Old 08-25-2004, 07:18 PM   #9
Tyros the Demon Slayer
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: August 21, 2004
Location: New York City
Age: 53
Posts: 26
I'm beginning to think I'm not worthy of answers that complete and helpful. Thanks Tom and Flamestryke.

Just to respond to a couple of your comments:

1. I typically try a six-person party, adding whatever characters I can recruit. More often than not, I do Monestary - Arnika (picking up Vi and Myles) - Trynton (trading Madras for Myles) and, if I survive that far, the Swamp. In the swamp, any sort of encounter can typically be problematic, although my guys are normally L9 or so by then. I've been to the Bluff once, and wandered (by mistake) in the SE Wilderness once. While I ran from and survived a certain encounter there that I gather is well-documented, I still met my end at the hands of a bunch of other magical types.

2. What I've done a few times, is instead to do Monastery, N. Wilderness, Umpani (picking up Sparkle and Saxx), back to the N. Wilderness. If I don't mess with the Hogar, I go back to Arnika, and then try to make it to Trynton (or sometimes do the cemetary dungeon). Those are the games when I rarely survive long enough to hit the Trynton fountain etc.

3. I've never had my characters actually hit level 11 -- some of the non-spell casters have hit L10.

4. Typical party: Dracon Fighter, Human Valkyrie, Human Bard, Hobbit (or Felpurr) Rogue, Human (or Dwarf) Priest, and Elf (or Faerie) Mage. Sometimes I go with one primary spell caster, a bishop, and then a bunch of secondary spell-casting types (Samurai, Lord, Monk, Gadgeteer, Bard). I gather, from what I've read so far that this latter approach can be problematic because it greatly slows down your access to the important protective spells (element shield, soul shield, are there others?)

Thanks again -- I appreciate any and all thoughts.
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Old 08-25-2004, 07:31 PM   #10
Variol (Farseer) Elmwood
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: May 16, 2003
Location: Dartmouth, NS Canada
Age: 58
Posts: 5,634
Hey Tyros, and Welcome!
Maybe you could slay the"Fiend of the Nine Worlds" for me?!?
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