Concerning Cheese

[LennonCook]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kaz:


The spell is meant for use on FRIENDLIES, I believe that it is a bug that it LOWERS high magic resistance. So that would count as using a glitch - cheese by your and my estimation.

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To quote from the manual:

quote:

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This resistance is set, so if the target already has more magic resistance than the priest would confer, it will actually lower it to the set value.

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And to setting the traps when the Dragon is asleep, or cant see you- NOT with Firkraag. He is aware of your prescense. As I said in my previous post, setting them right at his feet (NOT the Shadow Dragon with this... s/he is actually blind to your prescence until you use something offensive directly at it) takes adavantage of a bug (which is fixed with installation of TOB, the Official Patch, or some baldurdash patches) which causes the Dragon to not see you doing it. Cloudkill out of his visual range- yes that would be cheese. Luring someone to a door or somewhere they cant get past ?? If they were near one, it was probably put there for that purpose. Why else would there be a tight passage in Firkraags dungeon, behind which theres a great big Gollum that can kill you in 2 hits, that cant fit through it ??

[Oni Master]

Whats the big deal?

In a game such as Everquest or Diablo 2 I can understand why cheese is hated, but in BG2 which is mainly played single player, who cares?

Unless someone is bragging or something, who cares if they use shadow keeper to give themselves items.

If I want to play a game with evil and good party members, I can't be bothered to "micro-manage" my reputation at all times. I simply dont CARE about the reputation, so I'll use Shadow Keeper to edit it.

If I am playing a game with 6 really weak characters I made and I have my heart set on the Holy Avenger, I could do it the "non cheese" way, that is, spend 3 hours reloading, or get actual NPCs from the game, or I could just make my own. Its really not a big deal since it doesn't affect you.

My point is : BG2 has many different features etc. If I dont care for a certain feature, I will circumvent it, using Shadow Keeper or what not.

The point of the game is to have fun. So if you enjoy cloud killing Firkragg, fine. Its not cheese. Just in my opinion its not fun. However, who am I to tell someone how THEY should play the game THEY bought.

[LennonCook]

quote:

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Originally posted by Oni Master:
Whats the big deal?

In a game such as Everquest or Diablo 2 I can understand why cheese is hated, but in BG2 which is mainly played single player, who cares?

Unless someone is bragging or something, who cares if they use shadow keeper to give themselves items.

If I want to play a game with evil and good party members, I can't be bothered to "micro-manage" my reputation at all times. I simply dont CARE about the reputation, so I'll use Shadow Keeper to edit it.

If I am playing a game with 6 really weak characters I made and I have my heart set on the Holy Avenger, I could do it the "non cheese" way, that is, spend 3 hours reloading, or get actual NPCs from the game, or I could just make my own. Its really not a big deal since it doesn't affect you.

My point is : BG2 has many different features etc. If I dont care for a certain feature, I will circumvent it, using Shadow Keeper or what not.

The point of the game is to have fun. So if you enjoy cloud killing Firkragg, fine. Its not cheese. Just in my opinion its not fun. However, who am I to tell someone how THEY should play the game THEY bought.

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That is one of the points I made in the first post. Editing programs should be used if you have played hte game through numerous times and its begining to lose its fun value. That is infact what the editing utilities were for... to put fun back into the game when you have played it through that many times.

[jabidas]

If you want to cheese, cheese. Your ownly cheating yourself so what does it matter. If you dont want to cheese dont, what is and isnt cheese is really quite obvious, putting your 2 tanks at the front of a corridor so monsters can only come a few at a time obviously isnt chease. Going invisable infront of that smae corridor and turning on blade barrier obiously is. The only rule is do what you will.

[Morgan_Corbesant]

i dont see "cheating" or "cheese" as cheating myself, since ive beaten the game around five times with a party, and twice soloing. personaly, i feel its time to do new things, since this game IS starting to get boring.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Cheese is not cheating.

Cheese is about exploiting the limitations of the game.

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"Firkragg, could you please stay still while I cast cloudkill on you?"

"Sure! And don't forget to lay some traps as well!"

[Lord Ludtke]

quote:

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Originally posted by Oni Master:
I will circumvent it, using Shadow Keeper or what not.

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At the end of the day, the only person you have to answer to is yourself. If you feel unsatisfied after a battle, then maybe your tactic was cheese. I read Demogorgon was a bitch, so I loaded the place with as many spike traps as I could. End result, he's dead and I missed out on a good fight. I went back and got my ass kicked several times before I beat him "legit".

By the way, I quoted Oni as using one of the biggest words on these boards in a while. And no spelling mistakes. Hey Lennoncook, when you start killing people, could you take out the bad spellers for me, I just don't have the energy to do it myself

[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Lord Ludtke ]

[Glorfindel]

Ok.... Ive got a qeustoin totally off ur debate...... y's it called 'Cheese'???

[Whailor]

As I see it - if it's in the game, put there by game makers, then it's not cheese. Doorways are too small for some mobs - well tough luck for them then! It aint no cheese in any way, since it is set so by makers. Traps and cheese? Who is kidding here whom?? Why not then remove the thief class altogether - you see, the traps are cheese, so the locked chests must also be cheese because they are locked, which means you need the key. So go find it. Oh you have a thief and he/she picked the lock? Cheese! Key was not used! Heck that way everything is cheese. Paladins and rangers for example - heck, they should all be the fighters! Who has ever heard anything about spellcasting in history? No one. About fighters? Everyone. So cheese 'em paladins and rangers and make them all to be fighters.

As you can see, everything can be put under the 'cheese' then. Heh, there isn't any clear ramification to that word. But basically, if it's in the game and you use it in legit way, then go ahead. The fact that the Firkraag, for example, let's you set the traps around him while he's neutral isn't exactly your problem, neither the cheese. It's more like a cheese of bad programming - the mob should aggro on such behaviour right away and attack. Since it doesn't, go ahead. Aint your fault and aint cheese. Nuking with Cloudkill from distance - aint cheese, since it was made so. Again, the dragon AI should have been made better. Since Baldurash has a patch which doesn't allow this (i.e. ole Kraggie will get angry and come after you), it only shows that the AI programming in the game is lacking. It isn't again your fault and so go ahead.

Using Shadow Keeper and CLUAConsole is a different matter indeed. Not a cheese but cheating. You either do it or you don't, for whatever reasons. Simply bear in mind that when you make a char with every stat at 25, give to that char some weapons he/she shouldn't have yet, put on him/her items for bonuses which he/she wouldn't be able to wear in the first place (i.e. adding multiple magic items on char for bonuses) and then fight some fights, which now are trivial because of that - don't go bashing then someone who did not do all this and asks for help in defeating those same monsters. Because legit way you would maybe have the same issues, if you would be a new player. BUT - at the same time, if you have played the game through few hundred times and now play again and add to you, say, Bag of Holding at start - is it the cheating? Not really, in my eyes. I have seen it all, done it all, 127 times (as an example ), so this bag doesn't spoil anything to me or give advantages - it's just the little luxury tool I think I can afford now to myself [img]smile.gif[/img]

But yes, the main goal is to have fun. Play in whatever way you want to play it, as long as it is fun. And when in Multiplayer, follow the rules of that game and done [img]smile.gif[/img]

[LennonCook]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
Cheese is not cheating.

Cheese is about exploiting the limitations of the game.

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"Firkragg, could you please stay still while I cast cloudkill on you?"

"Sure! And don't forget to lay some traps as well!"

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Exactly what I said in the first post. Cloudkill out of visual range is infact a glitch in the programming, and so is Laying traps around Firkraag without him going hostile. Other Dragons in the game are 'asleep' or cant ntoice that your doing it, and so it is not cheese because they have no reason to go hostile. The cloudkill though is ALWAYS cheese, because the Dragons are programmed to go hostile as soon as an offensive spell is cast ay them, or an area effect offensive spell contains them. Just because you cant see them, doesnt mean you cant target them with an Area Effect spell. But the thing that REALY gets me with this, is people calling laying traps at a corridor and luring monsters to them is cheese... what else are traps there for, if not to set and lure enemies into ??