Should I buy?

[StarVid]

Both Icewind Dale games were marketed as Dungeon Crawl games. That was the main theme of both those games. They are more about the adventures than the dialogs. That was done on purpose.

I agree, and wanted to make sure this was really clear before he bought it. It is very likely that a gamer that prefers plot/story-driven games would find this to be a bad purchase.

It's commonly accepted that Icewind Dale II is harder than Baldur's Gate II. So maybe you are simply too good, or maybe you powerplay too much. Did you consider trying "weaker" classes? Like a simple minded bard, or something like that? That's the essence of roleplaying.

I don't really powerplay at all. I don't min/max, and I don't cheat. I believe the last party I was working with was a Paly2/Fighterx, Fighter4/BarbX, Battleguard, Stormlord, Rogue2/Bard1/EnchanterX, and Sorceress. I'm really not all that good at the game, it's just a matter of figuring out what patterns work, and these patterns don't really change significantly.

And talking about Roleplaying... You seem to have missed something

Actually I think it was the game that missed something. The story doesn't involve the players at all. Granted there are some race/class specific dialogues, but it's just a minor detail. This game is another case of anyone-could-have-been-the-hero-it-just-happens-to-be-you. These games usually result in much more superficial storylines and therefore it isn't likely to draw the player in as much. Not that I compare all games to this, but Planescape was much different, and involved the characters much more intensively.

To finish, you said you don't like Icewind Dale II, and probably not Icewind Dale I either, then, and you also said you didn't like BG II. Did you consider that maybe you simply don't like Dungeon and Dragons games? Or maybe Black Island games?

I like D&D. I used to play PnP back in middle school and it was great. I also like the original BG. It was well put together for a video game. My reasons for not liking BG2 are much different. I think the storyline is great, but I think the game is way too munchkiny, especially with ToB. I mean, HLAs, +5 weapons with loads of status effects, it's all too Monty Haul for me. As for not liking BIS games, that could be. They were good in the beginning when they made BG and PS:T, but it seems like they're taking the lazy way out with games now. In PnP, while you did have your dungeon crawls, most campaigns were based on characters and convoluted storylines with many subplots. The games really got your mind going. But this IWD deal is just a point and click game.

In all honesty, I'm just disappointed in the state of RPGs today. It's not much of a thinking man's game anymore. It's apparently so much easier and cheaper for the devs. to put out games where your goal is to just get more powerful gear and defeat more powerful enemies, instead of making a game that wows you with a deep, compelling, and engrossing storyline.

[Luvian]

I agree that the story is the "peasant heroes" kind, but I personally don't mind that at all. In fact, I think I like it better when joe nobody become the mighty hero.

Yes, I agree with you about the state of roleplaying games. I really liked the story of Planescape: Torment. It has always been one of my favorite pnp setting. And I also really liked the freedom found in BG1, that was the less linear of them all, in my opinion.

It's true that most newer games can't compare to them, but I try not to compare games, that just ruin it. I just play the games as they are, and enjoy the fun I get. Instead of looking inside the game for the roleplaying elements, I create my own.

I personally think that no game will ever be as good as a pen and paper game. I have been a DM for a very long time, and really enjoyed it, the interaction and adventures are so much better. My campaign were always story driven. There was lots of npcs to talk to, intrigue, social interaction, I liked to create a very rich world and have my players interact with it. I would often spend days and night working on a plot element for the next gaming session.

I really hated it when one of the player character got killed, that was my weakness, I would rarely create a situation in which they could really get killed other than by really bad luck, but they didn't know that. The way I acted and presented things, they were certain I spent my time trying to find ways to kill them all. But that made them even happier when they survived "the nasty trap I had probably spent days working on to kill them all".

I guess the reason I hated it so much when pc died was because my world was really story driven. It's really annoying when you just finish creating a whole series of quests centering around a certain character, just finished drawing his whole genealogical tree, fully fleshed out all his family, friends, enemies, and all, simply to see the guy die.

That's the problem with heavily story driven world. You make sure every characters are a piece of the puzzle (and a very important one, too), and when one die, you end up with an incomplete puzzle. And lots of sleepless night to find a way to incorporate his new "cool funny character I always wanted to try out" into the storyline.

But I'm rambling, it's time for me to go to sleep.

Ok, ok, I just have to tell that one anecdote before I go to sleep.

I remember once, we were playing an evil campaign, and one of the guy, he was the unluckiest player I have ever seen, he would die every two playing session or so, had spent lots of time creating his dwarven berserker, and liked him more than any character he had ever created.

The character would always keep a body part from his victims as a trophy, and he never washed himself, he was scared of water. The guys were coming from a raid on a caravan, and the dwarf was asleep in one of the carriage while the other were complaining about his body odors. They were crossing a bridge, so as a joke, I said "bah! just toss him down!". And they all started laughing and thought it was a good idea, so they did it.

I decided that since his phobia of water was very strong, and that he was sleeping and unaware of their plan, when he fell into the water, I asked him to make a system roll check to see if he would have a stroke. He had about 97% chance of success, no problem, I thought. I roll the dices, and get an... 99....

[ 05-08-2003, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

[StarVid]

I agree that the story is the "peasant heroes" kind, but I personally don't mind that at all. In fact, I think I like it better when joe nobody become the mighty hero.

This isn't a "joe nobody" becoming a hero story, it's a "joe anybody" becoming a hero story. A significant part to a good story is the characters. IWD2 doesn't even include this aspect.

Instead of looking inside the game for the roleplaying elements, I create my own.

I never do this in video games. If the game can't provide me enough to suspend my disbelief, I'm not going to do it myself. PS:T, had no problem. BG, worked for me too. Even BG2 was able to captivate me. But the IWD2 storyline gave me nothing to grab on to.

I personally think that no game will ever be as good as a pen and paper game.

Frankly, I thought that Planescape was as good as most pen and paper games. It was incredibly well put together. The Fallout games were just as good too (even though they weren't D&D, they used a different RPG system). Also, I even thought the BG series came pretty close. The IWD series was a far cry from a decent game.

[Luvian]

Originally posted by StarVid: This isn't a "joe nobody" becoming a hero story, it's a "joe anybody" becoming a hero story. A significant part to a good story is the characters. IWD2 doesn't even include this aspect.

That's the problem with game in which you create your characters I guess. That's why Planescape was so successful. The story was about the main character.

I never do this in video games. If the game can't provide me enough to suspend my disbelief, I'm not going to do it myself. PS:T, had no problem. BG, worked for me too. Even BG2 was able to captivate me. But the IWD2 storyline gave me nothing to grab on to.

Maybe you should try it, it's lot of fun to do. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Frankly, I thought that Planescape was as good as most pen and paper games. It was incredibly well put together. The Fallout games were just as good too (even though they weren't D&D, they used a different RPG system). Also, I even thought the BG series came pretty close. The IWD series was a far cry from a decent game.

I agree, the Fallout games are very good, I always have one installed on my computer at any time.

The biggest problem RPG games have in my opinion is that they lack human interactions. Planescape, Fallout... they are very good, but if I had the choice between playing one of them, or playing pen and paper with a group of friends, I would play PNP.

[ 05-08-2003, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

[Blood_Golem]

IWD2 is a great game and i would prefer it too the original.


P.S FelixJaeger got his picture and quote from Warhammer