Politically Incorrectus extremis

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Black Knight: Ok, so who's idea was it to fire a missle into the political soup? JJ? I'd like to go on record as saying that I am a registered Independent Voter who tends to lean Republican. I abstained from voting in the Ohio Presidential Election because I truly didn't like either canidate. I thought Bill Clinton handled parts of being the president very well. What he didn't do well is treat the office he handled with the respect and dignity that it deserves. I also believe that his marriage to Hilary is only for political gain and the kid is there for appearances only. Wouldn't surprise me if we dug deeep enough, we would find Hilary with some "friends" of here own. Bill just got caught. It will be interesting in my mind once HRC leaves office finally, to see if they stay together . . . BK

Yup, it was JJ's idea and when he gets home tonight, he's going to have a lot to answer here! (demi-undead status is gone, JJ- stormsylph wants her sonnet!-but any poetic apology will suffice! heehee )

And BK, you may well be right regarding Hilary's 'affairs' but she didn't abuse her position and it wasn't headline news, so we aren't really sure, are we? At any rate, I don't think Clinton was all bad as a president, either, but then not the best by a long shot.

You know, I'm not sure how I ended up in this 'political soup'. It's not usually my cup of tea. hahahahaha

MetaphoricalCloud

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Storm-Queen
Purple Rose of the Black Knight

[Black Knight]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Black Knight, what has private life to do with being a good or a bad president ? Would you prefer a bad president with an otherwise irreproachable married life, or a very good president who happens to cheat on his wife/husband from time to time ?

As a leader of our nation, I want BOTH. If he is taking the relationship that should be the most important to you (husband vs wife) and is cheating/lying/disrespecting and ignoring that oath he took, makes you wonder what else he was doing in office that we don't know about yet. It might be because I'm still young and Idealistic, but I feel that the President should be a role-model for young adults, and I don't feel that he did that. So to answer your question, I don't think you CAN be a good president if you cheat on your wife from time to time, but I also don't think having a 'perfect' marriage makes you a good president, either. That's just MHO, though.



BK

[Moiraine]

BK, I really think this is a typical difference of opinion between American and French people - we in France tend to consider our Presidents as more 'human' if we happen to find out that he has affairs, like Francois Mitterrand did.

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[Black Knight]

I'm not saying that a President (or anyone for that matter) isn't going to make mistakes in business or personal life, what have you. It is how you accept what happens and deal with it that shows your character. Lying, trying to cover it up, and refusing to admit what happened, especially in lieu of overwhelming evidence. Mr. Clinton has lied in court, lied to the American people, then lied about lying to us.

If he just would have said, listen, I have a problem, HRC and I are trying to work on it, but I slip from time to time. I need your support, I am trying to work my way past this in my personal life, and I want you, the people, to know that this will NOT interfere with me being the President. Thank you.

I guess I just wanted him to show good character. He didn't. He tried to cover what he did up, and ended up dragging the Presidency through the mud, as well as the American people
And lets not even get into his, I-need-a-legacy-quick-someone-give-me-some-people-to-pardon-I-don't-care-who policy.

BK

[Moiraine]

One could argue that Clinton lied to you about a private matter that should have concerned only him and his wife - that he shouldn't have been publicly accused of cheating on his wife, at the first place. Why, no other citizen gets prosecuted for such a thing !
Mind, I don't want to fight with you on that matter - I only express my opinion, which is shared by most French people, is all.
Let's stop this here and smile on it, OK ?

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[Tobbin]

Originally posted by Moiraine: One could argue that Clinton lied to you about a private matter that should have concerned only him and his wife - that he shouldn't have been publicly accused of cheating on his wife, at the first place. Why, no other citizen gets prosecuted for such a thing ! Mind, I don't want to fight with you on that matter - I only express my opinion, which is shared by most French people, is all. Let's stop this here and smile on it, OK ?

I really don't understand why it was brought up in the first place if it isn't considered a problem. He did what he did. Got caught. And now he will have to live the rest of his life with that hanging over his head. Hopefully, it's enough that people can learn from it. You do the crime, you do the time. And although it isn't something that people can get prosecuted over, it can cause litigation (DIVORCE).



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Death Waits 4 U ALL

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Black Knight: As a leader of our nation, I want BOTH. If he is taking the relationship that should be the most important to you (husband vs wife) and is cheating/lying/disrespecting and ignoring that oath he took, makes you wonder what else he was doing in office that we don't know about yet. It might be because I'm still young and Idealistic, but I feel that the President should be a role-model for young adults, and I don't feel that he did that. So to answer your question, I don't think you CAN be a good president if you cheat on your wife from time to time, but I also don't think having a 'perfect' marriage makes you a good president, either. That's just MHO, though. BK

I have to say that personally, I'm firmly on BK's side of this issue. Dishonesty in a personal relationship makes me wonder quite seriously about the public ones.

Cloudy

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Storm-Queen
Purple Rose of the Black Knight

[Tobbin]

Originally posted by Black Knight: I'm not saying that a President (or anyone for that matter) isn't going to make mistakes in business or personal life, what have you. It is how you accept what happens and deal with it that shows your character. Lying, trying to cover it up, and refusing to admit what happened, especially in lieu of overwhelming evidence. Mr. Clinton has lied in court, lied to the American people, then lied about lying to us. If he just would have said, listen, I have a problem, HRC and I are trying to work on it, but I slip from time to time. I need your support, I am trying to work my way past this in my personal life, and I want you, the people, to know that this will NOT interfere with me being the President. Thank you. I guess I just wanted him to show good character. He didn't. He tried to cover what he did up, and ended up dragging the Presidency through the mud, as well as the American people And lets not even get into his, I-need-a-legacy-quick-someone-give-me-some-people-to-pardon-I-don't-care-who policy. BK

Totally agree with you there BK. It's sad that he tried to cover it up. After all, there are certain morals that should be PRESENTED to the public even if they aren't being PRACTICED. Once it's found out though, he would have done best to ADMIT to it, rather than PROLONG the investigation. Reminds me of when he was campaigning and it was found out that he dodged the draft and didn't inhale when smoking pot. Yeah, right. Didn't inhale. Not the fact that marijuana in itself is illegal to begin with. If he had just fessed up in the first place, it's easier to believe that if something goes wrong with his presidency that he won't be trying to cover that up as well. I'd rather have someone in office that has good character, because to me, that makes a good person. Having a good person, will give you a good president. Someone willing to accept the responsibility of their own actions rather than to pass them off as someone else's mistake.



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Death Waits 4 U ALL

[Zenith]

CB, Moraine - Relax, it wasn't a joke but you read WAY too deep on that one. I was comparing Mrs. B to Mrs. C. I hold most women who've attained positions of power (especially in male dominated fields like politics) in high regard and have tons of respect for the work they had to do to get there. I simply find HRC vastly distasteful. She choose to put her political asperations before not only the good of her family but her country as well. IMHO, she's given the very women you defended a bad name. Her and her hubby have given marraige a bad name. Yes, I hold them partially to blame for the fact that my bank now assumes that husbands and wives don't trust each other. (Tried to cash my husband's check, we had both signed it, I was at our bank with plenty of cash in our account but I was told no because they couldn't be sure he had signed it...what the hell is that?? Time for a new bank) So, no, I cannot find it in my heart to think of HRC as normal. And just for the record, CB, you have such passion on the subject of professional women, how do you feel about those of us who choose a higher, grander calling - the raising of our own children?

[This message has been edited by Zenith (edited 03-10-2001).]

[Cloudbringer]

Zenith, As a matter of fact, I have much respect and admiration for them. (I might say that I don't consider either option a "higher calling" though. Just different roads to walk!)

I have a very dear friend who decided to stay home and raise her family after college, rather than work. It was a conscious choice to make her family life better and to raise her children in a way she felt was best. She and I are very close and I support the idea of a parent (either one!) staying home with the children when it is financially possible, as was her situation.

Things worked out differently for me, but had I the choice- I'd have taken both.

CB

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Storm-Queen
Purple Rose of the Black Knight