Aaaaahhhh!

[Dancing Virginia]

I just found "Summon Dead" and my Illusionist can't use it! Nor can my bard who has ZERO Level 5 spells at this point!

Not fair.

Blah.

So, explain to me again the rationale of specialist mages?

Cary

[Dundee Slaytern]

They get more spell slots, well... one more per level that is. I recall a lively discussion I had with NobleNick on the merits of General Mages vs Specialist Mages( I was advocating GMages).

Depending on the difficulty level and your party makeup, SMages may or may not be good.

[CerebroDragon]

Patience, Patience. Your Bard will soon get there in time. Keep the scroll in a holder for awhile. [img]smile.gif[/img] Its these kinds of issues we need to consider when we make specialist mages (i.e, what opposition school of spells your specialist miss out on?

School: -------------------- Opposition School:

Abjuration -------------------- Alteration
Alteration -------------------- Abjuration/Necromancy
Conjuration/Summoning --------- Divination/Invocation
Divination -------------------- Conjuration/Summoning
Enchantment/Charm ------------- Invocation
Illusion ---------------------- Necromancy
Invocation -------------------- Enchantment/Charm/Conj
Necromancy -------------------- Illusion

Page 67 of the IWD manual should serve ye well for general information on mage specialisation.

I have always enjoyed the challenges of the Specialist Mage option from both a tactical and roleplaying point of view.

In my three excursions through the game, I've used a different specialist each time. In Vanilla IWD first time through, I made a Necromancer. Lots of death magic and undead summoning. Good fun. Second time, with HoW, I went for a pyromaniac Invoker - fireball madness was the result. Another very enjoyable character.

You have to always be only the lookout for scrolls best suited to your chosen specialisation and also be aware of how you might be able to compensate for the lost school. Your bard for example, is one way, for its role can take on the spells that the specialist cannot.

I used this tactic on my most recent run through the game. Whilst my Conjurer could not use Fireball, Magic Missile and other common obliteration spells, his depth of conjuring/summoning power was well worth the sacrifice and my bard got to compensate by having most of the obliteration spells. Mordy's Force Missiles and Cone of COld were big favourites!

So rest easy, keep scrolls you find but can't currently use and think about ways your bard can complement your illusionist. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cheers,
Cerebrodragon

[ 12-29-2004, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: CerebroDragon ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

It is my understanding that DV has HoW installed. As such, the schools of opposition are as follow,

Abjurer ---> Alteration & Illusion
Conjurer --> Invocation
Diviner ----> Conjuration/Summoning
Enchanter -> Invocation
Illusionist --> Necromancy & Abjuration
Invoker ---> Divination & Conjuration/Summoning
Necromancer> Illusion & Enchantment/Charm
Transmuter > Necromancy & Abjuration

[CerebroDragon]

Why didn't you supply these with your first post then Dundee? Might have saved me the effort of digging up the IWD manual. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Some interesting subtle differences there, I see.

Dancing Virginia - I'm sure you get the idea anyway and will research the topic as to your needs.

[Aerich]

A little patience solves most things. Rest assured, your bard will be able to use 5th level spells for the majority of the game.

Don't forget, you've set up your party for mid to late game power - quick access to necromancy spells is one of the sacrifices.

Besides, Animate Dead isn't that good a spell for mages; clerics get it at a lower level. Mages/bards are better off casting Chaos, Cloudkill, or an elemental summons. Just my two cents.

[NobleNick]

Originally posted by Dancing Virginia: I just found "Summon Dead" and my Illusionist can't use it! Nor can my bard who has ZERO Level 5 spells at this point! ... So, explain to me again the rationale of specialist mages?

Cary,

You are bumping up against the downside of the trade-off that you made when you went Specialist. The Specialist gives up a school (or two) in order to get extra spells. Your Illusionist's school was picked by examining OPPOSITION schools, to MINIMIZE the number of really useful spells that are not available to her (and Summon Undead ain't one of the spells that I would lose sleep over). There is only one really good spell that you might have had to do without after you found it: Skulltrap (SLVL3). Of course you will also want to give the Bard the Stoneskin spell when it becomes available, but I don't remember where you find it, nor if that is a Necro spell.

Listen to Aerich and CerebroDragon. They are right on: Patience!! Your Bard will be a Necro powerhouse soon enough; and will more than mask the Illusionist's minor flaw, leaving you with a VERY powerful Mage team. The Bard will level faster than the Mage in the mid to late game. Stick that scroll in a safe place and wait.

The rationale for going Specialist:
1.)Big Advantage: Whenever a Specialist gains a new spell level (SLVL) she gets TWO spell slots at the new SLVL. Since these spells are typically the most powerful she possesses, and typically have a much greater effect on enemies when newly acquired, it is a distinct advantage to have two instead of the one that a GMage gets. (For instance, if you had leveled your Mage to a point that she had just gotten SLVL3, then she could throw two Fireballs in a tough battle, instead of one.)
2.) A lesser advantage: The Specialist naturally has one more spell slot in every attained SLVL. Dundee would point out that for very high Mage levels the extra lower level spells are not that important. I like all the spells I can get, low level or not.
3.) Very small advantage: I hear that Specialists get a small bonus to percent chance to learn a spell in their chosen school. If you save your game just before learning, reload until you get it memorized, and save just after learning, this is not an advantage to write home about.
4.) A disadvantage: loss of ability to learn spells from an opposition school (or schools). By carefully selecting a school based on it's opposition school, the bad effects can be minimized. (Many would agree that Conjuror is the worst school to pick; Illusionist the best.) In a well planned multi-mage party (which you have), the ill effects can be all but eliminated.

Good memory, Dundee! And nice to hear from you again! I looked and looked for the discussion you mentioned, but couldn't find it, though I found several threads that referenced it. As I recall, we came to a friendly semi-agreement, wherein you finally allowed that a specialist MIGHT be better for regular games; and I finally allowed that a General Mage MIGHT be better for a single-Mage party, only, especially in HoF mode.

Hope this helps.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[Dundee Slaytern]

A long long time ago, in a thread far far away.

It took me some time to find it, but I did not mind reading through the archives. It brought back a lot of fond memories. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[NobleNick]

Ah, yes, Dundee: That is the one! Thank you.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!