Next steps?

[Tyros the Demon Slayer]

Thanks again for all of the helpful advice. Clearly, it worked, because although I haven't ventured into the swamp yet, I feel like I have my best party ever. Here's my team:

Mook Fighter -- Woodsman's Axe (soon to be Beastslayer Axe), 3xCrossbow
Dracon Samurai -- Bloodlust, Wakazashi
Human Lord (female) -- Stun Mace and Hammer, Demonsting
Human Bard -- Enchanted Broadsword, 3xCrossbow. Also has Siren's Wail and Piercing Pipes
Felpurr Gadgeteer (female) -- Diamond Epee, Omnigun. Also has lava lamp, lightning rod
Human Bishop -- Enchanted Mace and Aqua Shield. Just got Element Shield. Alchemy at 48.
Vi -- Burning Spear and Siege Arbalest

Just made it back to Arnika. Dropped off a lot of Antone's items.

A few questions for the assembled masses.

1) Having already made one trip to the Umpani and gotten the demon weapons, I feel like there's little benefit to going back there yet. The swamp and either the tunnels or the bluff seem like the right next step. Any other options? I haven't done the cemetary dungeon.

2) The omnigun hasn't really done much yet -- I assume that's because except for some throwing stilletos that took out the oak saplings, I haven't had good ammo. Is there any point to using the gun, and not the gadgeteer devices, for the time being? I'll go straight to Crock and get some more gadget building blocks if I do go to the swamp next.

3) Having gotten Element Shield, what should my next priority be for the bishop?

4) Should I give my samurai something other than Bloodlust? If so, who, if anyone, do I give bloodlust to?

5) The Lord has been a very effective spellcaster thus far -- but melee has been so-so. I passed on the enchanted mace and anointed flail in favor of a stun mace because of the ko factor. Is that a mistake?

Finally, 6) I'm having a lot of fun. Thanks to all of you for helping me get out of the rut. Does it keep going funwise from here, or does it slow down at all?

[SecretMaster]

2) The omnigun does get better as you progress. Just wait till level 26...

Also, for ammunition, go for arrows or bolts. When you get farther into the game, start using lightning bolts for ammunition.

3) What other spell options do you have to pick??? Sometimes, it is better to just save your spell picks until you get the nice high level spells (unless there are some essentialls).
Some other great spells to get along the way are Soulshield, Armorplate, Magic Screen, X-ray.

4) Keep bloodlust for now, but always keep an eye on your samurai's stamina in battles. Later on, you will get some better choices. I forget the name, but there is this awesome staff that you get later on. It isn't CoC, but its like the Hibachi Bo or something. Whatever it is, it kicks ass.

5) The choice for your weapons is all yours. The KO factor is always nice, extremely nice. And just keep your lord up front in the middle of combat, and his skills will improve naturally. Keep pumping points into magic on levels and train magic for optimum efficiency.

6) The game always gets fun. I can't think of when i got bored. Wiz 7 still better though.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Personally, I think you have 3-4 too many in your party, but if it works for you..
I have a party of 2 Priests right now and I broke down and picked up RFS-81 (there's a punn there).
Think of it this way; would you rather have 5 mages with magic missiles or 3 mages throughing fireballs?

The Omnigun is one of the best things in the game because it get's better every other lvl all the way up to MK12! You always have something to look forward to, instead of the same old sword etc.

BTW, My Priests were shopping from Ferro by lvl 14 and had a portal set there.
I always travel where I "need" to go! I needed wrist rockets, so I got to Crock early. Try doing it that way a bit.

[ 08-30-2004, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: Variol (Farseer) Elmwood ]

[Nightowl2]

The Beastslayer Axe is nothing great. In fact, axes are poor in this game overall as compared to swords. You might want to switch over to swords because there are some really good ones out there.

As others have said, the Omnigun improves over time. However, do use the gagdets every so often, too, as this improves engineering skill (though they sure are a drain on stamina). Using the gun improves modern weapons. Also, in Arnika, search around the docks area for the porthole, if you don't have it already. In upper Marten's Bluff (the fort exterior portion), you can find a hidden item to merge with the porthole and create one of the fun gadgets in the game. It was one of my favorite items when I ran a gadgeteer.

The demon weapons are in the monastery, not with the Umpani.

The stun mace is a handy weapon, even if it doesn't do a lot of damage. Later (much later) you can get Diamond Eyes, the best mace in the game. If the stun mace is working for you, stick with it until something better comes along.

Bloodlust is a good weapon early on, but is weak later. After you find a better sword for your Samurai, you may just want to sell Bloodlust.

If you just want to build a couple of levels, go over the road between Arnika and Trynton awhile. If you haven't done Trynton yet, that would be the next step.

Nightowl2

[Flamestryke]

1) If you join with the Umpani you can shop at the Commissary. Kunar sells many earth and fire realm spells your Bishop could use. If some one is casting Armorplate already it isn't worth the trip back just yet.

2) The Omnigun is only as good as its ammunition. At Gadgeteer level 16 you can start loading arrows and quarrels into it. In the mean time get spike stones and head for Crock in the Swamp to get the Impaling Stones and possible Medusa Stones he may have in stock.

There are 3 gadget components in Arnika. Did you get all 3? 2 of them create another gadget I do not see mentioned in your post is why I ask. By all means hit Crock up for the other items! Make every Gadget you can regardless of whether or not you plan to use it often. There just might be a time when it comes in handy.

3) Depends on what you are planning for the Bishop to do magically. If a main spellcaster then buy every spell book you can lay your hands on. If you are after protective spells mainly then SecretMaster named most of them. Armorplate, Missile Shield, Eye for an Eye, and Chameleon are others to shoot for.

Save spell picks for the level 6 and 7 spells of most value to your party. (Banish is a level 6 spell that can be had without using a spell pick.)

Even if you don't plan on your Bishop to develop certain magic books buy all spells that can be learned anyway as it increases the mana points available for the spells you will use regularly.

4) If you plan to have the Samurai using swords then Bloodlust is best for now. I know you don't like to reload for party wipe outs so you most likely will not reload for loot, but if you get lucky and kill a certain Rapax Assasin with a machine you may get a nice Samurai Sword. This same sword is always in another location you will visit later. It is a fixed item in a specific area.

Once you make it to Rapax Castle there are possiblities for what is considered to be the best Samurai sword in the game. The merchant in the Castle also makes custom items and will make a very fine sword a Samurai weilds to its finest.

If you want to switch to staff & wand, as suggested above, for the Samurai the Zatoichi Bo is always in the Castle as well. It is without a doubt one of the finest S&W weapons in the game usable only by a Monk or Samurai.

5) As suggested keep the Lord in the front lines and they will improve. Attribute development will have a lot to do with this improvement. Right click on the Mace & Flail skill to see its controlling attributes and develop accordingly.

There are many nice M&F weapons to be had later in the game. I always prefer to dual weild M&F weapons with a Lord. Crock in the Swamp will possibly have an improved version of the Stun Mace. Just watch his inventory. I think you have made the wisest decision thus far on the weapon choice for the Lord.

6) There will be hairy moments, but once you come through them you will feel quite exhilerated I am sure. It does get better and it can be a lot of fun. Just take it slow and don't rush into areas that are over the party's head. Move on once they appear to be handling themselves well.

One footnote on the Mook Fighter Weapon choice. If you plan to use that Mook only weapon mentioned before you are in the wrong skill set. Axes are less than spectacular in this game as pointed out, but there is one, if you are very fortunate, that may be had later (random item in only one location) that is by far worth the effort of training the skill.

"mumbles" Mook fighter with an axe. Shoulda made it a Dwarf if that's the case.


Edit: Just in case you are not familiar with the reference I made above about right clicking on a skill. In the character's skill screen you can right click on any skill to learn the controlling attributes and obtain a brief summary of the skill's function.

[ 08-29-2004, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: Flamestryke ]

[SecretMaster]

Originally posted by Flamestryke: "mumbles" Mook fighter with an axe. Shoulda made it a Dwarf if that's the case.

Well sure if you want power gaming. The whole point of an RPG is to play your characters however you want them.

[Flamestryke]

It was intended as a joke SecretMaster.

[Ziggurat]

Wiz 7 is better but it is much more frustrating. Started it again recently. I think in the "old days" they expected you to work hard and repeat battles. I'm glad this game (W8) is more user friendly. W7 is better only because it is harder, IMO. Clever too, but this game has its share. Must admit W7 had some great puzzles. W6 was also hard. But to get ahead you had to fight bats and bats and bats to increase melee skills. It is hard to compare these games. All are great CRPGs and non-ADD. (Advanced dungeons and dragon rules, Wizardry has its own system)

[ 08-30-2004, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: Ziggurat ]

[SecretMaster]

Originally posted by Ziggurat: Wiz 7 is better but it is much more frustrating. Started it again recently. I think in the "old days" they expected you to work hard and repeat battles. I'm glad this game (W8) is more user friendly. W7 is better only because it is harder, IMO. Clever too, but this game has its share. Must admit W7 had some great puzzles. W6 was also hard. But to get ahead you had to fight bats and bats and bats to increase melee skills. It is hard to compare these games. All are great CRPGs and non-ADD. (Advanced dungeons and dragon rules, Wizardry has its own system)

Frustrating yes. But it still beat Wiz8 by a longshot. I loved the puzzles, I loved the monsters, I love the mapping skills and fancy names. I loved everything about it. Compared to Wizardry7, wizardry 8 is a joke IMO. And there weren't *that* many true puzzles in Wiz8. There were a few.

And it was always a relief to find a game without D&D rules/races/ etc.

Flamestryke, I know it was a joke. Mine was too, but I couldn't really figure out a way to make it like that thouhg.

[Wereboar]

@Tyros: A very important spell for your playing style is x-ray. Especially important in the swamp, to avoid battles in the open. Do you know how to 'run' outside combat? I usually run all the ways in the swamp at my first visit, avoiding all fights that might be dangerous.

Bloodlust is best for the samurai, for a long time. It gives doulbe damage plus an extra swing each attack - swords like Bushido Blade (the one you may get at martens bluff) are much weaker IMO. Late in the game, there are a few better swords.

Check your number of attacks from time to time, with and without the wakazashi. Depending on stats and skills, you might get 2 attacks / 2 swings if using Bloodlust only, and only 1/1 primary and secondary with the wakazashi. In this stage, use only Bloodlust (plus a shield). Check the numbers sometimes; later, with higher sword skill, you'll be able to dual again without loosing attacks.

The Lord - the hammer isn't very good. For better damage, you might want to use a wand or a dagger instead. But in the long run, he will probably dualing maces (Mauler+DE), so hammer helps building this skill.

@Flamestrike: Although you intended a joke when you wrote 'use a dwarf for an axe fighter', it is the truth. Dwarf warriors start with an axe.