Z'Ant becomes hostile, even post-rescue

[Gadgeteer Tom]

Of course I allied with Z'Ant early on, delivered Umpani Flag, killed Rapax assasin, stole Molari from Mook, assigned to find downed ship's black box - meanwhile with Umpani, brought back T'Rang arm, scuba dived to rescue Umpani, assigned to blow up T'Rang transporter (keep an eye out for Umpani scouting Rapax).

I did Portal while Diving, to unload unused booty (weapons armor, all too heavy to keep playing with).

He'Li never asked for usual bribe, left VI there (she's too fussy about where she wants to go), but RFS-81 came along (he's at level 20-something and deadly), actually I used the black box in the spaceport computer to get coordinates - but when I returned to Z'Ant - got a lecture about trust then he tries to kill us - loaded earlier savegame, went to Rapax Camp and rescued the T'Rang and Umpani there, returned to Z'Ant with the T'Rang prisoner - again Z'Ant wants us dead (so what could I do - I killed every T'Rang I came across [except for one younger, who wouldn't talk], got into the restricted area in Martin's bluff and found some really nice stuff after killing a mess of Spirits and answering the riddle about "Who are you".

I'd guess that the alliance is toast, although when I went to the Umpani general, he gave me an alliance paper - too late...

Should I go back to a save when the Rapax prisoners are freed, and see Umpani General first ? Or would that too be a waste of time ? Z'Ant wont talk - so I can't even offer him the Rapax T'Rang prisoner...

And if I ascend without toasting the Savant's ship, will he squirm away - and be able to kill us after all ?? Perhaps I can apply the coordinates from the Spaceport computer to blast the cloaked DarkShip ?

[Flamestryke]

Its what many refer to as the Z'Ant hostility bug. There are ways to get around it. Easiest at this point is to return to the save just after rescuing Rodan and Drazic. See Yamir first and get the alliance letter. Then go to Z'Ant, who will still be hostile mind you, so do not open conversation with him normally. Instead drop the alliance letter on him and you should be ok.

[Ziggurat]

Yep, Zant can turn on you almost any time after first quests. My theory is the Watchers see you with someone they don't like, but who knows?? Anyway, the trick is always have something in your hand to click on Zant if you can, before clicking on him to open normal coversation. In the Alliance case, as Flame says, you may have to do Umpani first to get the letter.

[seclists]

It seems that once Z'Ant becomes "hostile" at you, he will be that until the end of the game, no matter if the storyline dictates otherwise. Even if you complete the Alliance quest and then try to talk to Z'Ant afterwards, if he already was in the "hostile" state (i.e. had discovered your dealing with the Umpani) before the Alliance, he will attack you. I.e. not even completing the Alliance will reset his "hostile" state.

The neat trick that I learned here is to never initiate a conversation with Z'Ant by using the default lips symbol - instead, always offer something that Z'Ant wants (a quest object). The Chaos Molari will do the trick nicely, since he will simply give it back to you, and then you can talk even if he has become "hostile" (he simply ignores that for the duration of the conversation).

What exactly triggers Z'Ant's "hostile" state is a mystery. He'li is probably one factor, but not the only one. I always bribe her, yet Z'Ant once found out and once did not. Some have suggested that the longer you tarry, the more likely Z'Ant is to find out. Yet my personal experience does not support the time-based theory. In my completed Normal-level game, I did the T'Rang/Umpani quests in a very short sequence after joining both sides (I even used Portals systematically to minimize the time expenditure), and Z'Ant discovered my treachery before I could even complete the Bayjin quest. In my completed Expert game, he never became hostile even though I was a doublea gent and took ages completing the quests.

[Flamestryke]

The Z'Ant hostility thing happens randomly and no known cause has been found to date. I stumbled on to one thing I think might play a part in it and plan to experiment a bit further to see if it stays consistent.

For a very long time, since his first hostile episode, I would never join the Umpani until after I had been given the quest to get the flight recorder. Many games played this way and he never went hostile.

I got tired of wasting all this time and have played both sides of the fence right from the beginning lately. Twice more Z'Ant went hostile. I save all my game in zip files and I save often every game in multiple slots as actions dictate so I was able to look and see any similarlities.

The only common thing I did in these two games as opposed to other games where I was a double agent immediately is go to the Mook and hand them the Umpani Alliance Offer letter first while carrying the Z'Ant T'Rang-Mook letter.

Out of curiousity I handed the Mook the Z'Ant letter first in both these games and saw no change. Then I put the Umpani letter in a chest and handed them the Z'Ant letter and returned to Z'Ant, he was fine in both games and was not hostile.

It most likely is just a fluke but its the first time I was able to change the outcome so I planned to see if this action has any bearing on Z'Ant in my current games and in the future. Maybe if some of you are in this situation you could check it out too. Just make absolutely certain Z'Ant is not already hostile to you before doling alliance letters out to the Mook.

[J'aran]

In all the games so far in which I did the Alliance thingy, I have always given the T'rang letter to the Mook before even doing any Umpani quests after the obstacle course (in other words, giving the Mook the T'rang letter without having the Umpani letter in my inv), and I have never once had Z'ant go hostile on me (knock on wood).

So as far as I can tell, you just might be on to something.

[Wereboar]

It happened to me twice that z'ant became hostile. It was in game #15 and #16 or the like, out of the first ~20 (and then i started to use the trick to initiate conversation with an item). I'm pretty sure i didn't do things other than usual in these games. I assume there's just a small chance that z'ant will find out, independent of what you do.

[Gadgeteer Tom]

I'll try going back to a savegame where I'd just rescued the T'Rang and Umpani from the T'Rang - only this time I'll :
a) Go to Umpani first
and
b) Have the Umpani alliance letter out to shove in Z'Ant's face to start talking to him (although it was kinda fun killing all of the T'Rang, most of their drops were quite ordinary).

BTW - I already had delivered the Mook Alliance and returned the Mook Letter, long before.

Thanks all, for your replys - I'll post how it comes out with my revised plan...

[Gadgeteer Tom]

It worked ! Shoved the Umpani alliance in Z'Ant's face and he started out with "Let me read this"... Savant's Darkship is now blasted, and the two rescued from the Rapax are with the Umpani General.

Gotta sell off a bunch of 'stuff' and pick up Vi and RFS-81 to head for the Ascension Peak (I have a portal in the Rapax Castle by the transporter to the Peak, so the rockslide dosen't matter).

But I only did the graveyard dungeon, should I try another one before ascending ???

[Flamestryke]

I always like the Mountain Wilderness dungeon if I have spell casters. Nebdar's Amulet is pretty nice.

I like the NW retro but usually try to get there a bit early. The Hoarder Slime can drop a Gem of Power which I tend to try to get every game for Powerstrikers.