USA/Cuba - wossat all about then?

Donut · 08-17-2001, 09:07 AM

I've seen the film 'A Few Good Men' so I was aware that the US maintains a naval base on Cuba. Reading Redblueflare's post about the hurricane I began to wonder why it's there. As far as I understand there is no strategic importance. I suppose the reason the US keeps about 3,000 personnel in a country with which it maintains no economic or diplomatic links is the same as the reason a dog licks it's own balls - because it can!

In a speech last month George W said: 'The sanctions the United States enforces against the Castro regime are not just a policy tool, but a moral statement. It is wrong to prop up a regime that routinely stifles all the freedoms that make us human. The United States stands opposed to such tyranny and will oppose any attempt to weaken sanctions against the Castro regime until it respects the basic human rights of its citizens, frees political prisoners, holds democratic free elections, and allows free speech' So why does the US trade with China then?

If a British Company trades with Cuba they are blacklisted in the USA. Under the Helms-Burton act the US can even prosecute foreign nationals and companies who invest in properties in Cuba that were appropriated in 1960? (I'm aware that this legislation is currently suspended). Every year about 300,000 Canadians and Europeans take their vacations in Cuba - are US citizens allowed to travel there freely? Will I be allowed to enter the US if I have a Cuba stamp in my passport?

Why is there so much animosity against Cuba in the US? The embargo is never going to bring Castro down. Because you and I may disapprove of the political system in Cuba does this mean we should have no diplomatic links with them?

Please note - I'm not bashing anyone here. These are my thoughts on one aspect of international relations that I don't understand.

------------------

Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win!
Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas

Billikins the Bold · 08-17-2001, 09:44 AM

Its probably all down the Cuban American vote/ money in Florida. Lets face it, not respecting the basic human rights of its citizens, freeing political prisoners, holding democratic free elections, and allowing free speech has never stopped either the US or the UK from having relations with another country!

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Fear? I know not the meaning of the word. And you can keep that dictionary away from me!

08-17-2001, 11:03 AM

...and keeping a military base there is just so that in the event of Castro's death, we can be right there to take over and force our democracy upon their people.

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Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

debiler · 08-17-2001, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moni:
...and keeping a military base there is just so that in the event of Castro's death, we can be right there to take over and force our democracy upon their people.

You mean that Castro´s going to die one day?

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Calvin the bold

the omnipotent malt beer lord

08-17-2001, 11:11 AM

ROFL! You know when I was typing that out, I was wondering if he ever would!

Wondering now if it is just a guy in a Castro mask, wearing it to fool the nations, and all the while the U.S. is there just to secretly collect cheap cigars with which to supply the oval office.

------------------

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

Moridin · 08-17-2001, 11:23 AM

The sanctions against Cuba are nothing more than a policital soap-box. There are no good reasons for these sanctions to still be in place, but none of the 9 presidents that have held office since Fidel Castro took over Cuba, have had the balls to remove them, b/c they would have to admit that the US was wrong and Castro could claim a victory.

The US is trying to play world-leader. It is ok to impose restrictions on our own people, but how can we get away with imposing restrictions outside of our borders? Directors of companies that own Cuban assets are banned from the US, firms that have an investment of more than $20M in Iran or Libya are banned from selling goods in America, and banks are not allowed to make loans to any companies or individuals that do business in any of the three above mentioned countries. It would be funny if members of the European union started to ban US companies from doing business in Europe b/c Bush did not support the Kyoto treaty...would give us a taste of our own medicine.

------------------

Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time

Donut · 08-17-2001, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moni:
ROFL! You know when I was typing that out, I was wondering if he ever would!

Wondering now if it is just a guy in a Castro mask, wearing it to fool the nations, and all the while the U.S. is there just to secretly collect cheap cigars with which to supply the oval office.

I just had a terrible thought - what if they are cloning him?!!!!!

------------------

Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win!
Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas

08-17-2001, 12:25 PM

Alright Donut, you've rumbled us, I guess we have to come clean now... Fidel Castro is actually J. Edgar Hoovers' love child. He was so embarassed at his hetero slip that he banished the child to Cuba, only to have him grow up and take over the country. We maintain the political stranglehold to prevent Castro from becoming the world-dominating tyrant that he was destined to be...
Actually, I'm pretty sure it's more along the lines of having a nice, safe little communist country to kick around. The US military industrial economy will suffer without a visible enemy, you know. The fall of the USSR really threw a spanner in our watchdog-of-the-world act, and we just can't bear to give up our last old enemy.
What's that? China? No, no, old man, THEY are just misunderstood... fine bunch of political leaders there, making huge strides in human rights....(moneymoneymoneymoneymoney)

Istaron · 08-17-2001, 12:38 PM

Story: Two equally powerfull nations ended up on the same side in the end of WW2. Both sees themselves as heros, AND seeks world-domination. The nations were called USA and Sovjet. A cold war begins, and the countries of the world must choose side.
Cuba refuses to acknowledge USA as heirs of the universe. USA gets sad and starts to pick on them...

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We call him Bobby Corwen

Istaron · 08-17-2001, 12:41 PM

The Cuba-case is acctually quite similair to the Irak-case.

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We call him Bobby Corwen

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08-17-2001, 09:07 AM	#1
Donut Jack Burton Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Airstrip One Age: 40 Posts: 5,571	I've seen the film 'A Few Good Men' so I was aware that the US maintains a naval base on Cuba. Reading Redblueflare's post about the hurricane I began to wonder why it's there. As far as I understand there is no strategic importance. I suppose the reason the US keeps about 3,000 personnel in a country with which it maintains no economic or diplomatic links is the same as the reason a dog licks it's own balls - because it can! In a speech last month George W said: 'The sanctions the United States enforces against the Castro regime are not just a policy tool, but a moral statement. It is wrong to prop up a regime that routinely stifles all the freedoms that make us human. The United States stands opposed to such tyranny and will oppose any attempt to weaken sanctions against the Castro regime until it respects the basic human rights of its citizens, frees political prisoners, holds democratic free elections, and allows free speech' So why does the US trade with China then? If a British Company trades with Cuba they are blacklisted in the USA. Under the Helms-Burton act the US can even prosecute foreign nationals and companies who invest in properties in Cuba that were appropriated in 1960? (I'm aware that this legislation is currently suspended). Every year about 300,000 Canadians and Europeans take their vacations in Cuba - are US citizens allowed to travel there freely? Will I be allowed to enter the US if I have a Cuba stamp in my passport? Why is there so much animosity against Cuba in the US? The embargo is never going to bring Castro down. Because you and I may disapprove of the political system in Cuba does this mean we should have no diplomatic links with them? Please note - I'm not bashing anyone here. These are my thoughts on one aspect of international relations that I don't understand. ------------------ Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win! Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas

08-17-2001, 09:44 AM	#2
Billikins the Bold The Magister Join Date: June 7, 2001 Location: Manchester Posts: 147	Its probably all down the Cuban American vote/ money in Florida. Lets face it, not respecting the basic human rights of its citizens, freeing political prisoners, holding democratic free elections, and allowing free speech has never stopped either the US or the UK from having relations with another country! ------------------ Fear? I know not the meaning of the word. And you can keep that dictionary away from me!

08-17-2001, 11:03 AM	#3
Moni Guest Posts: n/a	...and keeping a military base there is just so that in the event of Castro's death, we can be right there to take over and force our democracy upon their people. ------------------ Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

08-17-2001, 11:11 AM	#5
Moni Guest Posts: n/a	ROFL! You know when I was typing that out, I was wondering if he ever would! Wondering now if it is just a guy in a Castro mask, wearing it to fool the nations, and all the while the U.S. is there just to secretly collect cheap cigars with which to supply the oval office. ------------------ Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

08-17-2001, 11:23 AM	#6
Moridin Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,735	The sanctions against Cuba are nothing more than a policital soap-box. There are no good reasons for these sanctions to still be in place, but none of the 9 presidents that have held office since Fidel Castro took over Cuba, have had the balls to remove them, b/c they would have to admit that the US was wrong and Castro could claim a victory. The US is trying to play world-leader. It is ok to impose restrictions on our own people, but how can we get away with imposing restrictions outside of our borders? Directors of companies that own Cuban assets are banned from the US, firms that have an investment of more than $20M in Iran or Libya are banned from selling goods in America, and banks are not allowed to make loans to any companies or individuals that do business in any of the three above mentioned countries. It would be funny if members of the European union started to ban US companies from doing business in Europe b/c Bush did not support the Kyoto treaty...would give us a taste of our own medicine. ------------------ Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time

08-17-2001, 12:25 PM	#8
Absynthe Guest Posts: n/a	Alright Donut, you've rumbled us, I guess we have to come clean now... Fidel Castro is actually J. Edgar Hoovers' love child. He was so embarassed at his hetero slip that he banished the child to Cuba, only to have him grow up and take over the country. We maintain the political stranglehold to prevent Castro from becoming the world-dominating tyrant that he was destined to be... Actually, I'm pretty sure it's more along the lines of having a nice, safe little communist country to kick around. The US military industrial economy will suffer without a visible enemy, you know. The fall of the USSR really threw a spanner in our watchdog-of-the-world act, and we just can't bear to give up our last old enemy. What's that? China? No, no, old man, THEY are just misunderstood... fine bunch of political leaders there, making huge strides in human rights....(moneymoneymoneymoneymoney)

08-17-2001, 12:38 PM	#9
Istaron Banned User Join Date: June 16, 2001 Location: Uppland Posts: 711	Story: Two equally powerfull nations ended up on the same side in the end of WW2. Both sees themselves as heros, AND seeks world-domination. The nations were called USA and Sovjet. A cold war begins, and the countries of the world must choose side. Cuba refuses to acknowledge USA as heirs of the universe. USA gets sad and starts to pick on them... ------------------ We call him Bobby Corwen

08-17-2001, 12:41 PM	#10
Istaron Banned User Join Date: June 16, 2001 Location: Uppland Posts: 711	The Cuba-case is acctually quite similair to the Irak-case. ------------------ We call him Bobby Corwen

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