3rd Edition rules a turn off?

[ispq]

quote:

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Originally posted by Fungus:
Yet now they can get the option of a game where thats totaly legit, they complain how it was better when it wasn't alowed.

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*Smiles* Well, because now everyone can do it. *Smiles* I tend to think NWN will be enhanced by the presence of 3rd edition rules.

[Lemernis]

My only basis for comparison is BG1's approximation of 2e vs. online 'roleplaying/PnP' 3e games. I've never played either version sitting around a table with a group of players.

One thing I have to say I do not care for about 2e is its race/class restrictions. I can see how it might have made for some interesting gameplay in certain rspects, but I thought it silly to imagine that a half-elf could never become a cleric-thief, for example.

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Lemernis ]

[Sir Marcus Swordseeker]

I have been playing pnp d&d for over 19 years and have seen alot of changes for this gaming system. But they allways somewhat relative to D&D this seems to be a completely new game . It also appears to be marketing scheme by WOTC to generate more funds for the company if its a new game call it something else. If they did that I might try it but not as this ploy

[ispq]

While the release of 3rd edition is indeed a marketing ploy by Wizards of the Coast to get everyone to buy all new books, I feel that the product delivered far beyond its cost, at least for me. US$60.00 to buy all three basic rulebooks? It was more expensive when TSR was last running the show. Granted the book prices have now risen to reflect actual cost/profit margins for Wizards, but the fact remains that for the money 3rd edition is a high quality class and level based RPG.

3rd edition, as class and level RPGs go, is remarkably clear and concise. Wizards did a great job at reining in system inflation , ie. as many actions use the same d20 plus modifiers system as possible. 2nd edition used many different systems for the different classes, such as Thief skills, and non-weapon proficiencies.

The reduction in the number, and complexity of the systems makes 3rd edition ideal for conversion over to a CRPG. The programmers could create a workable framework, and add in the chunks of game mechanics that used the same system quickly and easily. I imagine that 2nd edition, or to bring up the original Never Winter Nights on AOL, 1st edition were not much fun to actually program.

[DEADMAN]

Finaly read through all this and it kind of makes me smile. Like alot of people here I've been sadly playing pnp rpgs from the start and remember that TRS used to make military board games. I just wish we had a tenth of the female gamers back then that now exsist [img]smile.gif[/img] . On GURPS, I dont want to start a fight but I still say give credit were it is due and thank HERO for introducing a universal roleplaying system, GURPS is the child of Man of War a sad stripped down version of Champions. On the premise that 3rd Ed is not DND, well everyone had problems that 2nd wasnt either. I Remember one of my big problems wasi s that it was a game of options, everything was optional, try finding a group that used the same rules. And for people who say 3rd is a completly diffrent game. Its supposed to be. WOTC (whom I really dont care for) understood that the game needed a major shakedown.
On the races, the only major thing that has changed is that they no longer have limits on abilities which was stupid to begin with, Hi I"m an Elf who has lived for 600 years and this 25 year old human is far superior to me with a sword. seems a little silly. Dwarvs are still dwarves and Elves are still Elves with all the reasons people who played them still thier except for the fact there was almost no reasons to play the poor human whose only ability wouldn't be seen till after years of gaming.
The new system is versatile, the mechanics are better than the original systems since it can now drop its strategic boardgame beginnings.You can do things in the game now that didnt really work well in the older system. And best of all the classes are pretty balanced and even.Its nice to play a mage without having to wonder what hes going to do now since hes out of spells. The only complaint I have is that I want rules to go over lvl 20 since you tend to gain levels at a incredible rate in 3rd, I remeber in one senario picking up three lvls, this you to take about 4-5 in the old rules. Of course after 2oth lvl I have no Idea what would be a intresting fight without getting silly.

[WOLFGIR]

Nice to see another old RPG:er here!

I agree with what you sy about 3:ed and for the matter of gaining levels quick.. I agree wholeheartedly, I have decreased the XP with a 20% and now the players are progressing a bit more even.

THe Epic handbook is due to be released this spring giving you the thicckest book so far from WOTC with alot of rules for being above lvl 20. And of course, humans and looling elves aren´t the only ones that can be epic.. Epic monsters do exist as well! Epic Dragons anyone?

I remember a good many discussions from BG2 where most people thought the dragons too easy to fight. Try battling one in 3:ed.. Not fun, not fun at all!

I hope though that NWN will implement many good things and also make the 3:ed "based" game fluent and good to play. Some of the tabletop ideas really get loose on the CRPG scene, and it will be interesting to see them balance that in gameplay. For instance the rouge class has an incredible superiority when it comes to skillpoints and skills available.. Some will be hard to see in a CRPG...

Welll hold your thumbs, cross your fingers hop on one leg and pray that NWN will be a good enough game to let us marvel over instead of arguing!

[oldbittercraig]

I'm another "Olde Tymer"- having started with the red box set back before Reagan was elected. I've played every edition of the game- be it original, advanced, 2.0, 2.5, 3, now back to 2.5 again only because the DM doesn't have the new books.

Again everything being subjective, I like version 3.

Everyone with the same level ceiling is nice. The feat choices to specialize your characters are great.

The fact that a bag of holding no longer costs more a "complete set" of a Holy Avenger +5 and Plate +5 is certainly an improvement.

Someone mentioned "THACO" being easy? Try doing it with an eleventh level fighter with the full grandmastery in bastard sword equipped with a +3/+6 vs. evil weapon. It's a pain in the ass... I have to a quick cheat sheet before every session. And I'm decent in math.

It's much easier the 3.0 way. Total it up, if my number is higher, I hit.

All have their merits, everyone will have their favorites (GURPS), but don't knock it until you've tried a full adventure arc with it.

[Buschmonkey]

Believe me 3rd Edition can be just as challenging as 2nd Edition. I'm a newcommer to roleplaying but not to RPG games such as BG, BG2, etc. When I started out playing 2nd Edition I found it so incredibly confusing. I mean THACO alone took me 2-3 weeks just to wrap my head around because it deals with integers. But with 3rd Edition it took me 5 minutes. All you have to do is, when you attack, meet the creatures AC to hit. I mean how simple is that? I like 3rd Edition because there is so much more flexibility and customization and control with your characters and everything is made so much easier and logical as well.

[toriuxik]

Drizzt is not a good example for letting players have more freedom with their characters. He is the exception, one in a million (at best). This means: It makes NO SENSE to have people running characters like good or neutral Drow. Its dum. Same with using elven Paladins. Paladin is from a HUMAN point of view. NOT an elf one. They have their own 'paladins', which is to say rangers and bladesingers. lol, humans aren't elves, why make them that way? It makes no sense to do so. Perhaps theirs a REASON 2nd had those restrictions? Besides, prestige classes restrict just the same, so whats the point? its so dum!

[WOLFGIR]

Originally posted by toriuxik: Drizzt is not a good example for letting players have more freedom with their characters. He is the exception, one in a million (at best). This means: It makes NO SENSE to have people running characters like good or neutral Drow. Its dum. Same with using elven Paladins. Paladin is from a HUMAN point of view. NOT an elf one. They have their own 'paladins', which is to say rangers and bladesingers. lol, humans aren't elves, why make them that way? It makes no sense to do so. Perhaps theirs a REASON 2nd had those restrictions? Besides, prestige classes restrict just the same, so whats the point? its so dum!

Excuse me from laughing but since when did you start to rule the world I set up for my gamers??
It´s is you who have missed the point completely. The rules are examples and not put in stone. Elven Paladins are a very exceptional thing, Drow being good? Nope, the new system lets you who plays a character mighty enough to challenge the gods, do as you see fit to have F U N.

*sigh* It´s a game. You accept Dragons, giants, Drow, halflings, ghost and goblins, but hey!! Stop that there is an elf Paladin in act 2! Blasphemy! YOU decide if you want it or not, and I can tell you one thing. When you play, you don´t need to play an elven Paladin, no one is making you. BUT for thoose that wants to. They can!